Replacing Clutch Fluid

[luca1290]

How do you remove the old fluid from the clutch line and replace it with fresh one? Is this even possible in the S550? Or are we expected to just pray that it might eventually mix with the fresh one? Given the thinness of the clutch line and the consistency of brake fluid, I suspect this mixing won't happen too soon, if at all.

Yes, you are correct, there is no bleeder because the service procedure from Ford tells us to bleed the clutch system by applying a vacuum to the reservoir.
While I understand your concern (I'm also used to bleeding via a bleeder), I stand by their reasoning: a controlled vacuum is much better than a bleeder because it is most effective and the system becomes simpler.

For the moisture part I wouldn't be too worried: water will diffuse so your clutch line fluid will be perfectly dry: water will be absorbed the same way it was introduced in the line in the first place.
You may have a little of browning of the brake fluid (just on the clutch actuator) due to heat in the clutch if you work it too hard but the dry clutch will fail much sooner than the fluid and in that case, you have to replace everything.

Only thing I will be worried are the professional who will work on the car, I do everything myself because I know that brake fluid service is one of those who is never performed properly, if not at all (raise the hood of any car and take a look at the color of the fluid in the reservoir).

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[3pdl]

interesting topic. its hard to understand some of the weird butthurt in this thread.
at any rate, i've read reports of the factory clutch line caving in high heat conditions. since i occasionally track the car i replaced my clutch hose line with a braided hose so clutch fluid flush was necessary. (i also upgraded the joke corrugated tube from firewall to master to a quality hose rated for brake fluid fwiw) its a tight fit in there. the fitting was frustrating and tricky but doable. i plan to flush the clutch fluid every other brake fluid flush by unclipping the fitting at the clutch slave and pumping in fresh fluid. another upgrade would be an independent clutch master. i run castrol srf and i've read anecdotal reports it doesn't play nice with the slave fitting. in 20k miles i've experienced no problems though.

 

[Vlad Soare]

I started this thread because my car is two years old and it's time to replace its brake fluid. And I thought, "OK, but what about the clutch, shouldn't I change that as well?" This is my first car with a hydraulic clutch. All others had either cable-operated clutches, or automatic transmissions.
But I guess I might be worrying for nothing.

Speaking of cables, I wonder if a cable-operated clutch could be adapted to the MT-82. That would get rid of all the intrinsic problems with heat, failing slave cylinders, etc. Of course, then we'd have a cable that might snap sooner or later, so we may be just trading one set of problems for another.

 

[luca1290]

To my understanding cable operating clutches are for smaller engines (Fiat Panda anyone?). The force multiplication required to operate a heavier clutch (well, to push the springs actually) is far greater in a 5.0L.
Also the feeling on the pedal is better with an hydraulic actuation.

 

[Nightmonkey]

This also depends to a large extent on the installation space and year of manufacture.
It can also be found e.g. in FIAT vans from the 2000s.

Hydraulic are a better solution, starting with the brakes on a bicycle.

 

[Vlad Soare]

Hydraulic are a better solution, starting with the brakes on a bicycle.

They have the potential to be better. But whether they actually are or not, depends a lot on how well they're implemented. A slave cylinder that's connected to the master cylinder through a plastic pipe, offers no provision for bleeding, and is known to fail often, can easily tip the balance in the favour of the cable.

 

[Nightmonkey]

It's not that simple, with a clutch cable, you have a lot of friction in the system.
That doesn't make it any nicer in the long run.

I don't know how long you've owned a car the longest, even in terms of mileage, but the issue of aging fluid in the clutch system won't cause you any problems if you only use the vehicle for everyday driving (that includes high-speed Autobahn* driving, whereby heat from the engine does come into the system).

*A normal comfort travel speed there is 100 mph, which is a speed you go to jail for in other countries.

 

[Vlad Soare]

True. I guess there's no such thing as a free lunch. You just have to pick your poison.

 

[luca1290]

A slave cylinder that's connected to the master cylinder through a plastic pipe, offers no provision for bleeding, and is known to fail often, can easily tip the balance in the favour of the cable.

Well, I would not call the Yankees to make a manual transmission. They made quite a good job with the 10R80, bringing American autos at a par with the European ones.

*A normal comfort travel speed there is 100 mph, which is a speed you go to jail for in other countries.

Jail for that only happens on pariah states like Switzerland, where people feel the urge to regulate even if you can flush the toilet after 10.00 PM.
Here in the free world is a slap on the wrist (if you don't behave like an ass with the cop) or if they don't stop you can always state that you didn't know who was driving (and pay a little more, but your license is unharmed).

Edit: at a cost of stating the obvious, there is a lot of sarcams in the reply.

 

[jacknifetoaswan]

True. I guess there's no such thing as a free lunch. You just have to pick your poison.

Honestly, the clutch fluid just isn't something I'd be worried about on a daily driver. If it's a racecar or a drag car (that isn't an automatic), you're going to end up having the transmission out of the car at least once a year for service, and the clutch fluid will end up being freshened. Keeping your brake fluid clean (I know they're the same system on a Mustang) is more important than trying to flush out the six ounces of fluid in the clutch line.

If you're super worried about it, you can disconnect the clutch line at the trans, then pump it out. It won't get what's in the slave cylinder, but at least you'll get what's in the clutch line.

JR

 

[Vlad Soare]

Here in the free world is a slap on the wrist (if you don't behave like an ass with the cop) or if they don't stop you can always state that you didn't know who was driving (and pay a little more, but your license is unharmed).

You've got to love Italy.
It's more or less the same over here. The last time I got a speeding ticket, the cop told me there would be no more speed traps from that point on, and asked me to step on it hard when I leave, to make it sound nice.
Switzerland? My God, I would be afraid to even come closer than five yards to a car, let alone drive it.

 

[luca1290]

You've got to love Italy.
It's more or less the same over here. The last time I got a speeding ticket, the cop told me there would be no more speed traps from that point on, and asked me to step on it hard when I leave, to make it sound nice.
Switzerland? My God, I would be afraid to even come within less than five yards from a car, let alone drive it.

Unfortunately, my mother went to live in the Lager Country because she married a local, I can say I tasted the Swiss pie very well.
Going to Lugano you have 60km/h speed limit on the motorway while the "cantonale" (their way to call a local road because they can't speak proper italian) it's at 80, single carriageway with a lot of intersections....
I gave up going anymore there when I manage to take TWO speeding tickets the same day.
5Km/h more is 60 something CHF (that I paid)
6Km/h more is 120 something CHF (that I paid)
11Km/h more they take your car (that I avoided and for sure I will never step foot in there never again).

If she wants to see me, she is welcome to come in the best country in the world.
Bottom line, if you have to cross Switzerland, circumnavigate it.
Sorry for the OT.

 

[Vlad Soare]

Yeah, that's sad. I feel sorry for those people.
I do miss Italy, though. I've been there twice and absolutely loved it. Nicest people on Earth, most gorgeous scenery, and some roads and highways to die for. Expensive, but worth every cent.
After all, it's the birthplace of Alfa, Ferrari, Lamborghini, Lancia... What else could you expect?

 

[Conman1138]

Just skimmed this thread, and didn't see this mentioned anywhere: I've read that the hydraulic clutch in the S550 is a "self bleeding" system, such that simply pumping the clutch pedal 100 times or so would clear the line of old fluid.

So if you're really worried about old fluid in the line (you shouldn't be, and it'll eventually clear out from normal driving anyway), you could go ahead and give your left leg a good workout after bleeding the rest of the system.

Edit: I've been proven wrong, this is not how the "self bleeding" nature of the system works, fluid is not cycled through.

 

[sk47]

Hello; A strange thread in some ways. I am use to folks telling me I do not need to bleed my brake fluid every few years. They get away with not doing so for a long time so in their mind it is not needed. My current hydraulic clutch vehicle is a 2001 model i bought new. Clutch still works well. Is it because I replace the fluid every two or three years?
The slave cylinder on my car is external of the bell housing with an arm on a pivot into the bell housing. So, the fluid is not close to the pressure plate and the friction heat that can build up. Still the fluid becomes darker in only a couple of years. I intend to replace the brake and clutch fluid on a regular basis. Others can do what they will.

I did the brake fluid on both vehicles and the clutch fluid on my car this past spring. I also change out differential oils, transfer case oil and automatic trans fluid and coolant on a regular basis. I even drain and replace the lower unit oil in my outboard.

The other odd thing is so far no information about the process of actually bleeding the clutch system on a late model Mustang. One mention that using vacuum is the way to do so, but no details on procedure. Of interest also will be the specific equipment needed. I assume a bleeder cap which fits the fluid reservoir is needed???

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