Replaced Voodoo Engine

[MrCincinnati]

I’m really torn on this same train of thought. Ford is such a strange company IMO. They had the guts to stick their necks on the line to build this unique car with the Voodoo obviously being the biggest reason for this uniqueness. Then they throw in the Track Attack program, which is/was awesome. They are doing things almost all of the other car manufacturers are afraid to do nowadays.

But, then they don’t back it up with other customer service aspects of it. Their dealership network is old and as we know is extremely hit or miss when it comes to just basic service of this car. Then when you do have a major problem as a lot of us have had it is pulling teeth to get Ford corporate to do the right thing in a reasonable time frame sometimes. Or find a dealer service department competent enough to do the work. I’m extremely lucky that I have a great relationship with my dealer both on the sales side and the service side. It and the uniqueness of the GT350 is honestly the only reason I stuck with Ford and bought an F150 from them as well. But, I totally get your feelings on this and lean that way sometimes as well.

Add to it the politics of the day and especially trade disputes etc..........I like buying US products when I can (which is also a big reason I have Forgeline wheels etc), but our domestic auto makers don’t make it easy sometimes on both the product and customer service side.

Yeah I mean I’m not trying to roast Ford out of frustration. They just have a behavioral pattern that is hard to ignore...focus RS.

And you’re right about the dealer network. But I think I’d have that issue with any performance vehicle.

When I was in my early 20s I worked for a Porsche Audi dealer. The A4s had head gasket issues and the service bays were filled with them due to warranty work. To get to the head gasket you had to drop the block.. this left a lot of techs scrambling trying to keep up and they would take shortcuts wherever they could.. normally on the test drive portion after a repair.

So I’d end up getting keys tossed to me for Porsches Audis etc and literally told by the techs: go put it through the paces and let us know if anything happens.

I was a LOT TECH.

So yeah not just Ford with the service issues. I don’t trust any dealer working on a car.

 

[MrCincinnati]

This thread is the reason my whipple kit has been sitting in boxes at my installer since February.

In over 2 years I have 13,000 street miles including 3-4 passes at the strip running mid to low 12's . I am never going to see a "track" and while I love the car on the street I thought it needed just a little more .
I ordered billet OPG and CS to install at the same time as the supercharger but at this rate I am thinking I better have a "spare" short block (like I have for my Hellion and KB GT's) before I go rolling the dice .
I think I may wait till the next MMR 10% off sale to get a "built" Voodoo short block ...for about $6500 with OPG/ARP main studs/ 2000 rod bolts / head studs with slight decrease in compression .
I could then swap the short block (or long block since I also have an extra pair of GT 350 heads )and keep the original in case I ever want to go back to stock and sell the car .....or just to have as a "spare" that can be built to be stronger(? Sleeved ) if needed .

MMR has Voodoo shortblocks?! For under $10k? Read your post and went immediately to their site..didn’t see any 5.2s. The only reason I don’t mod my R is the $20-30k replacement motor fear. If we’re talking a short block for under $10k that changes things a lot.

**edit**

Found it on page 2 lol

http://www.modularmotorsportsracing...in_page=product_info&cPath=80&products_id=877

Wow. Adding this to the list.

 

[olaosunt]

Lol
Did you find it ? I got a quote for a long block build(non sleeved) for just over $11k (with 10 % off )

 

[Demonic]

Interestingly they don't have the stock compression of 12:1 in their drop down menu, though they do have a 'custom' option.

 

[dev1360]

Avoid any engine built by MMR at ALL costs. Search them, they are the Hennessey of engine building. Lots of shady business and engine building practices. Customers finding stock parts in engines when they paid for aftermarket etc.

 

[dev1360]

Interesting information. However, I continue to doubt the wisdom of fixating too much on the OPG because Ford's code of Omerta means that none of us know what is causing the problems. Or, if someone here or reading these posts DOES know, they, they feel constrained to publically acknowledge it. Personally, I think there are potentially different causes of failures between those cars whose oil consumption completely absurd, and those who experience nearly instantaneous engine failure due to 0 oil pressure. It will be interesting to see what the final results of Car & Driver's long term Shelby. Although, in truth, no production engine should reasonably be expected to hold up to having the snot kicked out of it for 40k miles. I am sure they are doing that with this car because of what it is and how much fun it is to drive. I doubt they are driving the Volvo SUV they tested that way.

Whatever the causes(s) are, I suspect they are ultimately the consequence of some penny pinching production compromises made to the originally designed and thoroughly developed engines.

Ford is just another in a long line of manufacturers who engage in this practice. Personally, I would not mind paying a couple of hundred bucks more for a plus $60k car to free the manufacturers up from engaging in this penny pinching practice. Perhaps this could be enforced by management requiring the original development Team to sign off on any proposed changes to what they painstakingly developed and durability tested, prior to moving to the production phase.

Again, This is not just a Ford issue. Moving to another car brand will not just obviate this problem. This is a corporate "group think" problem and it is not just with cars....

Stupid is as stupid does.


F. Gump

Don't get me wrong, I do not think the OPGs are related to oil consumption at all. It's physically impossible for oil to disappear via the OPGs. The oil consumption, I believe, is just due to blowby. Low tension rings, cylinders slightly out of round or deforming from vibration, or issues with the spray welded cylinder liners.

Sudden oil pressure loss is almost definitely due to the OPGs. Just by design. There's nothing else in the engine that maintains or produces pressure. Bearing clearances opening up cause gradual loss of oil pressure over time. Not suddenly 0.

 

[MrCincinnati]

Interestingly they don't have the stock compression of 12:1 in their drop down menu, though they do have a 'custom' option.

Probably assuming you’re going FI with the forged block

 

[olaosunt]

The guys at whippple can build you a motor .
https://www.mustang6g.com/forums/showthread.php?t=86057

Reusing your engine will set you back about $7K.
If you want it keep yours and start from scratch it's about $15k( for a long block with ported heads )

These guys on eBay are asking $12K for complete Voodoo engine with 2000 miles .
https://m.ebay.com/itm/2K-miles-201...oo-5-2L-MOTOR-ENGINE-LONG-BLOCK-/302668550011

 

[nastang87xx]

I think that many are frustrated with the choice in material for the OPGs, but they are overlooking the hardness and resulting durability of a powdered metal gear.

The broken OPGs are caused by torsional vibration of the crank snout. It causes the gears to move inside the housing. The vibration and side loading combine to crack the brittle powdered metal gears.

Forged Steel gears are softer, which allows them to flex. But they do not have the durability of the hardened gears. That said, Many of you will have the car LONG sold and gone before you wear out a forged gear in a cast housing.

Ford did, however, determine that the cost/benefit of the OPGs were acceptable when paired with a proper crank damper and heavy clutch. It is one of the reasons the 350 has a heavy dual mass flywheel. The weight absorbs much of the vibration the FPC is prone to through firing order and RPM. Let's also not forget that Ford went with a non-traditional FPC design that actually caused more NVH than traditional FPCs due to packaging and cost of needing to run a dual plenum intake with the traditional FPC design.

You and I have spatted before and while I still disagree with what you referred to before, this is 100% on point.

Guys with WOT boxes and 2 steps have also shattered their OPG's too because of this exact same reason. The hits off the rev limits is basically like dropping your engine off a cliff and letting her hit ground.

When it comes to materials engineering as of today you basically get 3 choices:
strength - resistance to being deformed (good steel is very strong)
toughness - resistance to shattering (glass is not tough)
durability - resistance to wear out (tin is not durable)

Each category is allowed 100 points. Unfortunately you only get about 200 to fill those category...take this example with somewhat of a grain of salt as this is VERY generalized and hypothetical.

 

[nastang87xx]

Avoid any engine built by MMR at ALL costs. Search them, they are the Hennessey of engine building. Lots of shady business and engine building practices. Customers finding stock parts in engines when they paid for aftermarket etc.

Agreed. A shop around me used to source stuff from MMR. There's area reason why they don't anymore. They almost lost their business because they couldn't support how bad things were.

 

[CANTWN4LSN]

Other than preventing a big sploosh while tracking, can someone explain the advantage of a catch can collecting 2 oz of oil between oil changes in a car that otherwise burns 16oz every 1500 miles? Isn’t that type of consumption negating what little effect the catch can is preventing as I am assuming the only place that oil is going is by the rings and burning in the cylinder?

 

[nastang87xx]

Other than preventing a big sploosh while tracking, can someone explain the advantage of a catch can collecting 2 oz of oil between oil changes in a car that otherwise burns 16oz every 1500 miles? Isn’t that type of consumption negating what little effect the catch can is preventing as I am assuming the only place that oil is going is by the rings and burning in the cylinder?

In THEORY...

1. Prevents octane instability
2. Keeps all of the intake tract clean
3. Prevents valve sludge buildup (good premium gas should detergent that out anyway)

 

[Hack]

Other than preventing a big sploosh while tracking, can someone explain the advantage of a catch can collecting 2 oz of oil between oil changes in a car that otherwise burns 16oz every 1500 miles? Isn’t that type of consumption negating what little effect the catch can is preventing as I am assuming the only place that oil is going is by the rings and burning in the cylinder?

If the car burns that much oil, then I agree the catch can isn't doing much. Mine doesn't burn oil like that.

 

[rick81721]

If the car burns that much oil, then I agree the catch can isn't doing much. Mine doesn't burn oil like that.

1 qt in 3000 miles is "burns that much oil"? That seems to be on the low end of what's being reported

 

[windnsea00]

So my car started making a pretty loud knocking sound over the weekend, now it's sitting at the dealer to find out the problem. 2018 GT350 with 7k miles. Sounded to me like a bottom end issue but will wait to see.

I've owned 16 cars and never had an engine failure so this a new experience for me. Hoping Ford and the dealer come through.