Real World Test by the SCCA.

[ZaneWayne]

Where is thePill?

Sponsored

 

[Taneras]

I give up. I pointed out the obvious in a Honda thread. That apparently bothered you by the way you keep bringing it up. I say stock VS stock the Camaro is a little faster. That's not good enough for you either! You need to consider the fact that Mustangs and Camaros and SRTs are all close enough in performance to be considered drivers races. Unlike an Accord VS a GT! You don't race. I get that. You have no idea about what I'm talking about when I mention real racers. Go buy a Camaro. Come down to Atco and race me. When you lose. Tell everyone. If I was stock, how you would have won. Explain to everyone how Camaros run 11s stock all day long according to the interwebs. While your clutching your 13 second slip. Roll up your copy of Motor Trend and show it to everyone. Point out to them that it says you should have won right here. Get used to people laughing and rolling their eyes at you. I'm done with this one. My head hurts from trying to make sense of you.

"Come race me bro!"

I'm glad you're taking your own advice and not taking this too personal. :lol:

Do you find it a bit odd that you're bitching about the 11's that the camaro is suppose to run stock when those numbers came from "real world tests" (owners who tracked their cars)? The car mags, as far as I saw, pegged it in the 12.3-12.6 range - both the auto and the manual. And yet here you are bitching about the 11's its claimed to run (from the "real world testers") while putting down the car mags that listed it as slower. I don't understand.

I'm lazy and the Honda thread was the quickest example I could recall where you clearly didn't just call a win a win or a loss a loss, you made excuses. Maybe that's the only time you did that, I don't know. But you clearly contradicted yourself and it appears the cause was which brand was on the losing side.

I'm not going to go buy a camaro and race you, I'm happy with my 2015 GT. I'm a mustang fan :ford:, but I also don't get bitter when the Mustang doesn't come out on top of a comparison or YouTube video.

I do race. My first time was when I was 18 when I raced my stock 2004 V6 . My 2013 GT with just a tune ran consistent 12.3's. I haven't tracked my 2015 yet because I don't think I'll break 11's with just the flex fuel tune w/E85, intake, and catback and I'm waiting for more mods.

But what I don't do is pretend that magazine tests don't take place in the real world because I don't like their results. I don't call people forum jockeys or magazine racers because they consider those results valid and a decent benchmark.

 

[Todd15Fastback]

Where is thePill?

He is on Facebook ranting about politics.....:doh:

 

[ZaneWayne]

He is on Facebook ranting about politics.....:doh:

Hahaha. He needs to come back to this thread.

 

[Todd15Fastback]

Hahaha. He needs to come back to this thread.

:lol:

 

[aspensilver]

"Come race me bro!"

I'm glad you're taking your own advice and not taking this too personal. :lol:

But what I don't do is pretend that magazine tests don't take place in the real world because I don't like their results. I don't call people forum jockeys or magazine racers because they consider those results valid and a decent benchmark.

Good posts Taneras. I wouldn't get too wound up about this bluebeast guy. His use of blue font is almost like a Narcissist tell, he uses blue font on a forum so his posts stand out from everyone elses, and we are left to deal with it. Great for him, not so much for everyone else. He can't help being a 'special guy'

It's also quite hypocritical of him to now be all cool with Camaro threads in the VS section when a few months ago he was getting angry at every new Camaro thread in the Mustang section (feel free to go look at his posting history).

I agree with you Taneras that magazines are but one data point. A lot of the die-hard "I'm a racer" guys aren't very good with statistical data sets and don't realize that all tests contain bias, and magazine tests are just a data point. The are not the end all, and neither are other data points. Swinging wildly in rejecting any of the datapoints is unnecessary unless they have been clearly falsified in some way.

 

[bluebeastsrt]

Good posts Taneras. I wouldn't get too wound up about this bluebeast guy. His use of blue font is almost like a Narcissist tell, he uses blue font on a forum so his posts stand out from everyone elses, and we are left to deal with it. Great for him, not so much for everyone else. He can't help being a 'special guy'

.

Actually. I use the font to see very easily, when someone is quoting me. But carry on Dr. Freud. Me personally. I'm usually more worried about closed minded people that are upset because someone choices to be different from them. Aren't assumptions fun?

 

[thePill]

So the fifth gen 1LE is faster than the 6th gen Mustang? I think this is old news.
Edit: Was this one of those "tracks" that is in a parking lot with cones?

No, there is really no real advantage between an S197 GT, Boss 302, 5th Gen SS, 5th Gen 1LE, 6th Gen SS or 2015 GTPP.

The E92 has a small advantage but, it's so very small. The E92 M3 didn't exactly dominate so, it fits the class.

These are real world results used by a governing body to class vehicles. As I said months and months ago, what we observe in the SCCA is NOT what happens in magazines.

That is all... the 1LE nor 6th Gen SS hold no real advantage over the Coyote Brembo GT, Boss 302 and S550 GTPP.

The Coyote GT and 5th Gen SS are moving to the bottom now but, these are solid facts and tested by a governing body, the SCCA, by Sam himself.

Reality vs. Magazine.


The 2016 SS is close to the 1LE. It was tested during the off season and approved for SCCA FS. It wasn't faster than the E92 M3.

Period, don't whine about it.

 

[thePill]

Looks like some people are mad because the SCCA just said a GT Premium was just as fast as a 1LE :lol:


Doesn't it f@ckin' drive you nutz when thePill provides studies that back his arguement.

You know what???

These studies happen CONSTANTLY through the year. That's why I'm so very confused by what the experts here have to say. Because Sam thinks your a f@ckin crackhead.

 

[Sasuketr]

Looks like some people are mad because the SCCA just said a GT Premium was just as fast as a 1LE :lol:


Doesn't it f@ckin' drive you nutz when thePill provides studies that back his arguement.

You know what???

These studies happen CONSTANTLY through the year. That's why I'm so very confused by what the experts here have to say. Because Sam thinks your a f@ckin crackhead.

Alright man we lost you totally. Its official now:first:

 

[thePill]

Alright man we lost you totally. Its official now:first:

I take it you didn't read Sam's test for the SCCA.

I wouldn't either...

In short it confirms what thePill preached on here before downtime. The 1LE was an overhyped venture that was only marginally better than the SS in lap times. It's advantage was stock endurance...


The GTPP Sam tested was a Premium with 12 gallons of fuel. It was only 0.2 behind the 2015 1LE.

Motor Trend claims the SCCA says 40lbs is a tenth. The 1LE had 4 gallons of fuel...

Hmmmmm....

Science vs. Fiction.

I have a feeling most subscribe to fiction and receive it 12 times a year :lol:

 

[ihc95]

I think everyone in the car world can unanimously agree the the 6th gen Camaro destroys the 6th gen Mustang in every objective performance category there is. I don't know why there is a need to bring up these bullshit "real world tests" that no one cares about. So the SS is faster than the GT...who cares? Just accept it and move on. The Mustang is better looking, easier to live with, and has the better interior. The S550 is still more desirable to many, and that's why we are here and not on Camaro6.

 

[thePill]

I think everyone in the car world can unanimously agree the the 6th gen Camaro destroys the 6th gen Mustang in every objective performance category there is. I don't know why there is a need to bring up these bullshit "real world tests" that no one cares about. So the SS is faster than the GT...who cares? Just accept it and move on. The Mustang is better looking, easier to live with, and has the better interior. The S550 is still more desirable to many, and that's why we are here and not on Camaro6.

No, we can't agree...

We have yet to see a '16 SS compete and some hang their hat on a win. Because, they need a win to be honest. If the SS can't manage better and more consistent times than a GTPP Premium, it's Chevy's fault.

The GTPP was on fire last year. It ran up on everything in the class, first season out.

First, that's not happening for the '16 SS. It's still early BUT, not many will be registered this year. But, the ATS-V wasn't either and we still seen some on TNT.

If you prefer the 1/4 mile now because you think you have a shot, think again...

The S197 rules that and they will continue to rule there until they are extinct. As soon as anyone mentions a 1/4 mile, my mind drifts to an S197. It's lighter, solid axle, better looking and far cheaper.

 

[JohnnyUtah]

I really don't understand the point of this thread. It shows objective numbers but it seems like the argument is against the numbers.

A small cone course like this also doesn't accurately reflect real road course times very well. For example, I have both a 2011 ZCP M3 and 2014 1LE. The same cars used in this test. On a road course my 1LE crushes my M3 by about 2 seconds consistently. This is after hundreds of laps of analysis on multiple tracks.

That being said I really can't imagine my 1LE doing very well in autocross. It is heavy. I haven't run both cars in the same autocross course on the same day, but I would likely be faster in the M3 depending on the course layout.

Each car favors a different course layout. This is clearly written in the article talking about sweepers etc. I don't doubt that there is a course layout in which a GTPP will beat a 1LE either. I'm not a course designer so I can't speculate what that would be.

The funny thing is that most of the magazine times that everyone is so up in arms over have been run at Streets of willow. That is as close to an autocross as a road course is going to get. It is tight.

So again. What's the point? In this case the expected happened... a 1LE beat the GTPP. So what is that supposed to prove about the Mustang being close? Like I said, my 1LE dominates my M3 on a road course but these numbers don't show that because it's a tiny little cone course.

I guess I don't put a lot of merit in autocross results when it comes to road course times. A miata will beat all 3 of these on the right autocross course. Does that mean it's going to win on the big boy track once we get above 80 mph?

I don't get it...

 

[thePill]

I really don't understand the point of this thread. It shows objective numbers but it seems like the argument is against the numbers.

A small cone course like this also doesn't accurately reflect real road course times very well. For example, I have both a 2011 ZCP M3 and 2014 1LE. The same cars used in this test. On a road course my 1LE crushes my M3 by about 2 seconds consistently. This is after hundreds of laps of analysis on multiple tracks.

That being said I really can't imagine my 1LE doing very well in autocross. It is heavy. I haven't run both cars in the same autocross course on the same day, but I would likely be faster in the M3 depending on the course layout.

Each car favors a different course layout. This is clearly written in the article talking about sweepers etc. I don't doubt that there is a course layout in which a GTPP will beat a 1LE either. I'm not a course designer so I can't speculate what that would be.

The funny thing is that most of the magazine times that everyone is so up in arms over have been run at Streets of willow. That is as close to an autocross as a road course is going to get. It is tight.

So again. What's the point? In this case the expected happened... a 1LE beat the GTPP. So what is that supposed to prove about the Mustang being close? Like I said, my 1LE dominates my M3 on a road course but these numbers don't show that because it's a tiny little cone course.

I guess I don't put a lot of merit in autocross results when it comes to road course times. A miata will beat all 3 of these on the right autocross course. Does that mean it's going to win on the big boy track once we get above 80 mph?

I don't get it...

The point is, when raced, there really is no clear advantage in the pack of vehicles in FS.

This SCCA report contradicts everything Motor Trend has put effort into. It shows you that regardless of what MT said, you may get your ass handed to you by any of the cars on the list.

The 2015 Mustang tore the SCCA up... moreso than the 2005-2006 did. Any faster and it would be removed from FS...

...and a lot of people would bitch I'm sure.

Sponsored