Radium Fuel hat / bucket

[kevinvan6000]

Was just wondering if anyone is running the new style Radium fuel system at all - (http://www.radiumauto.com/Fuel-Pump-Hanger-2011-Ford-Mustang-P2165.aspx). I've asked PBD if they would have any concerns tuning for e85 with it, still waiting to hear back from them. I've asked the guys at Juggernaut performance about them as well. They have said they sold a fair bit of their JN2NING 2.0 kits which uses these systems, but they didn't provide to many other details then that. Hoping to hear from someone who has one.

Thanks

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[Angrey]

Was just wondering if anyone is running the new style Radium fuel system at all - (http://www.radiumauto.com/Fuel-Pump-Hanger-2011-Ford-Mustang-P2165.aspx). I've asked PBD if they would have any concerns tuning for e85 with it, still waiting to hear back from them. I've asked the guys at Juggernaut performance about them as well. They have said they sold a fair bit of their JN2NING 2.0 kits which uses these systems, but they didn't provide to many other details then that. Hoping to hear from someone who has one.

Thanks

It's part of my build. I'm using a local/obscure tuner for the very reason you pose. Lund basically said install a Fore system or they won't tune it.

The Radium bucket has several improvements over most of the competition. It has a one way diaphram valve for inflow at the bottom and the opening at the top so it creates a mini-surge tank inside the active saddle.

Despite my conversations, they're the only one on the market that created a hat that can fit the BKS1000 pump(s). The new hat has enough posts to run several pumps (4 wire brushless pumps even).

It's a good hat. Deatschwerks just came out with their hat in the past couple years as well.

Your best bet is to call the tuner directly and ask them (you can't even call Lund and have a conversation with them about it unless you're part of the cool guy racing click club, they only correspond through email, which is like having a conversation about going to space over an email exchange).

The big(ger) tuners won't venture outside their comfort zone and sometimes that's helpful so that people will build and install things that are proven, but sometimes it's restrictive and limiting because they'll never be on the cutting edge side of things or having components that are the best/latest/greatest.

 

[kevinvan6000]

It's part of my build. I'm using a local/obscure tuner for the very reason you pose. Lund basically said install a Fore system or they won't tune it.

The Radium bucket has several improvements over most of the competition. It has a one way diaphram valve for inflow at the bottom and the opening at the top so it creates a mini-surge tank inside the active saddle.

Despite my conversations, they're the only one on the market that created a hat that can fit the BKS1000 pump(s). The new hat has enough posts to run several pumps (4 wire brushless pumps even).

It's a good hat. Deatschwerks just came out with their hat in the past couple years as well.

Your best bet is to call the tuner directly and ask them (you can't even call Lund and have a conversation with them about it unless you're part of the cool guy racing click club, they only correspond through email, which is like having a conversation about going to space over an email exchange).

The big(ger) tuners won't venture outside their comfort zone and sometimes that's helpful so that people will build and install things that are proven, but sometimes it's restrictive and limiting because they'll never be on the cutting edge side of things or having components that are the best/latest/greatest.

I'd be interested in hearing how your build works out.

Hopefully PBD will get back to me in the next week or so. They have been good in the past, at least with me, tuning "unknown" parts, I believe I was the first car they tuned with the ESS blower and they had no issues with it. Worst case if I get this system, I'll run it as a true return setup since the hat is modular, which should satisfy their demands. Part of the appeal of this setup though is the straightforward install keeping the regulator contained in the hat.

 

[Angrey]

I'd be interested in hearing how your build works out.

Hopefully PBD will get back to me in the next week or so. They have been good in the past, at least with me, tuning "unknown" parts, I believe I was the first car they tuned with the ESS blower and they had no issues with it. Worst case if I get this system, I'll run it as a true return setup since the hat is modular, which should satisfy their demands. Part of the appeal of this setup though is the straightforward install keeping the regulator contained in the hat.

Yeah, if you're not doing a return, then I can see the tuners saying no. The just in time supply of fuel (ie returnless) only works up to a point. The pumps and delivery just can't react fast enough to keep up with massive consumption spikes.

Now, the tune has flexibility in that if the pumps are behind, it can simply ask for a longer injector pulse width until the pressure rises to something more desirable, but that not only has limitations (and risk) but it's just an element of complexity I think most tuners would just as soon eliminate.

And even though it comes with an integral FPR, there's no gauge on it, so you'd have to rely on data logs to rough set it (again, a bit of a pain in the ass).

I bought the hat because:

1) It holds more fuel surrounding the pump than the OE style or open formats. It has an inlet in the bottom, the feed from the passive side (either jet syphon or pumps) and the return line (if you're running a return). When the bucket is full, it simply spills over the top joint.

2) It has elegant electrical posts/connectors which make it very flexible and can feature a wide range of pump combinations. No pesky drill through or wiring sealing issues to deal with.

I ditched the Radium FPR and have one in the engine bay and I'm return style using the OEM feed line as the return line (equivalent to a 6 AN).

You're absolutely right though, if you get them comfortable they might help you out, but above a certain power level, they're going to want return style, and it has nothing to do with the hat or the components, it's just safer for them to have excess fuel available for sudden power increases.

 

[Angrey]

Are you planning on keeping it N/A? If so, a FPR set at the desired based pressure that dumps excess back into the bucket would work.

If you're going boost, I don't think tuners will be comfortable and it'll have challenges/problems. For instance, you want to index the regulator to increased pressure under boost. That would mean having a long vacuum tube all the way to the rear (that can't be pinched or kinked). I'm not even sure if the Radium regulator allows for that.

I think the FPR is a decent idea for wild N/A builds where you only want a single static pressure, but for boost and indexing, the traditional regulator in the engine bay is probably the better ticket. (and a return style setup)

 

[19BULLITTwhipple]

I bought the jn2ning fuel system Lund said they would tune it. But I did get the fore hat and check valve and upgraded lines with dual 274 pumps. Once I have it installed I’ll give me feedback

 

[Cory S]

I bought the jn2ning fuel system Lund said they would tune it. But I did get the fore hat and check valve and upgraded lines with dual 274 pumps. Once I have it installed I’ll give me feedback

I have one going into my current build now. -10 feed upgrade, and (2) 274's as well......

No reason why ANY tuner would say they won't tune it. It's literally a return system, just without the useless 10' of return line....... They have supported almost 1000WHP on E85 as well on 274's.

 

[kevinvan6000]

Well, guess it won't matter so much now, I ended up going with a DW X2 hat for now. I was working with my local speed shop that has their Christmas sales on and had to decide between it and the Radium hat. They were able to get the better deal on the X2, and I suspect I won't have any issues getting a tune for it.

 

[Angrey]

I just looked and the FPR on the Radium hat does feature a nipple for indexing boost pressure.

So in order to make it work equivalently, you'd need to run a vacuum line all the way back to the hat so it can increase pressure according to boost pressure to offset the increase.

This would be a little challenging for 2 reason, one, you'll need to ensure the reference line is free and clear of kinks and pinches and second, the nipple on the regulator is VERY small, so small it would be difficult to adequately transmit boost pressure through a long length of it. It would probably be best to use a larger vacuum line all the way back to the hat and then a reducer/adapter to get the line down to the size that fits the nipple.

Otherwise, yes, it's a return style, just with the return line inside the hat instead of all the way from the engine bay back.

 

[Cory S]

I just looked and the FPR on the Radium hat does feature a nipple for indexing boost pressure.

So in order to make it work equivalently, you'd need to run a vacuum line all the way back to the hat so it can increase pressure according to boost pressure to offset the increase.

This would be a little challenging for 2 reason, one, you'll need to ensure the reference line is free and clear of kinks and pinches and second, the nipple on the regulator is VERY small, so small it would be difficult to adequately transmit boost pressure through a long length of it. It would probably be best to use a larger vacuum line all the way back to the hat and then a reducer/adapter to get the line down to the size that fits the nipple.

Otherwise, yes, it's a return style, just with the return line inside the hat instead of all the way from the engine bay back.

Proper 1/4-3/8” vacuum line with stiff walls would work fine for a 8-10’ run. Tons of room to run it without being in the way.

 

[Angrey]

Proper 1/4-3/8” vacuum line with stiff walls would work fine for a 8-10’ run. Tons of room to run it without being in the way.

The barb is 3/16" so my point was, you're going to want to run something like 3/8" for such a long run and then step it down to 3/16" and connect at the vacuum barb on the regulator.

If you try to run 3/16" line all the way, you're very likely to get a much lower boost reference at the barb/regulator.

This will result in a poor ramp, which the tuner will eventually figure out and correct, but you'll be getting proper fuel at low or no boost and leaner trims at high/max boost where the pressure delta across the intake/injectors is fighting injection. In fact, if not diagnosed properly, this will reveal itself as running out of injector (the tuner is asking for longer and longer pulses to account for the drop in net pressure). It's probably fine if you have injector capacity to spare, but if it's like a lot of people and running right on the ragged edge, a bad boost reference can appear like the injectors are tapping out. At the very least, it'll put more strain and heat on the injectors than necessary.

Seems like an anal/OCD thing, but the price difference between 3/16" vacuum and 3/8" line is negligible and an adapter is a $10 bill. Cheap insurance against frustrations later.

 

[kevinvan6000]

PBD did reply back to me that they would tune the Radium setup which is good to know

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