POLL: Guess MY18 Power Level!

[millhouse]

A lot of the gains seen from DI come from being able to use higher compression, that IS the big advantage. Every manufacture I can think of increased the CR when they made the change.

I'm sure we will find out in a few months, should be a screamer!

Increasing CR has diminishing returns. The bump from 9:1 to 10:1 yields a greater potential for HP increase than going from 10:1 to 11:1. This new bump to 12:1 has less returns. Around 13:1 you'll reach a limit where the costs associated with the increased power are huge.

Sponsored

 

[Petroleum Jesus]

A lot of the gains seen from DI come from being able to use higher compression, that IS the big advantage. Every manufacture I can think of increased the CR when they made the change.

I'm sure we will find out in a few months, should be a screamer!

This is absolutely false. The guy who used it as a basis for an expected power increase has no idea what he's talking about.

Increasing CR has diminishing returns. The bump from 9:1 to 10:1 yields a greater potential for HP increase than going from 10:1 to 11:1. This new bump to 12:1 has less returns. Around 13:1 you'll reach a limit where the costs associated with the increased power are huge.

11:1 to 12:1 is worth a whopping .6% increase in power, or about 2.5hp.

 

[Ctease]

11:1 to 12:1 strictly speaking increase power 2.1%

(10 to 11 2.5%; 12 to 13 1.9%; yes not linear)

E= 1 - 1/R^(k-1)

Source:
http://web.mit.edu/16.unified/www/SPRING/propulsion/notes/node25.html

5% is combined effects

Source on previous reply

435 to 457hp is based on 5% of known changes (DI & +1 CR)
It seems logical other changes were made.
470hp is reasonable. The only question (in my pea brain) will GT be 455(457) and an option and/or special edition model(s) unlock 470hp? Or will GT come standard with full 470.

My expanded guess/wishlist (just to stir $h!t)
Engine of this thread:
GT 457hp
GT w/ "active exhaust" option (includes drop-in filter, exhaust & tune) & Bullit/Mach1 470hp
Other engines:
Boss 500hp (5.0 with GT350 heads)
GT350 552hp (If VooDoo gets DI in '19, using same 5% it will have 552hp)

 

[xwoodx]

This is absolutely false. The guy who used it as a basis for an expected power increase has no idea what he's talking about.

11:1 to 12:1 is worth a whopping .6% increase in power, or about 2.5hp.

No, it's not false. One of the big reasons Di gains power is it's always accomponied by an increase in compression. You not believing that doesn't make it less true.

 

[Twin Turbo]

Can I suggest everyone takes a breather? No need to turn this into an argument

 

[9secondko]

11:1 to 12:1 strictly speaking increase power 2.1%

(10 to 11 2.5%; 12 to 13 1.9%; yes not linear)

E= 1 - 1/R^(k-1)

Source:
http://web.mit.edu/16.unified/www/SPRING/propulsion/notes/node25.html

5% is combined effects

Source on previous reply

435 to 457hp is based on 5% of known changes (DI & +1 CR)
It seems logical other changes were made.
470hp is reasonable. The only question (in my pea brain) will GT be 455(457) and an option and/or special edition model(s) unlock 470hp? Or will GT come standard with full 470.

My expanded guess/wishlist (just to stir $h!t)
Engine of this thread:
GT 457hp
GT w/ "active exhaust" option (includes drop-in filter, exhaust & tune) & Bullit/Mach1 470hp
Other engines:
Boss 500hp (5.0 with GT350 heads)
GT350 552hp (If VooDoo gets DI in '19, using same 5% it will have 552hp)

Interesting theory.

I can see the logic there and see others who have certain weight to throw around thinking along the same lines.

It makes no sense to limit the 5.0 to 455 hp or so, when it would be easy to achieve a clean factory motor with good MPG at 470 hp.

Unless... there is some thinking such as you have stated - which resonates.

That's all well and good - until the Camaro comes along and smacks the Mustang down in performance again in the base and midrange performance arena.

that's just plain no fun and makes Ford look like they cannot out-engineer GM.

that being said, the LT1 is going to need some fairly major help increasing power and staying clean.

Still, I expect GM to up the Camaro SS to 470 hp soon. The standard GT needs to at least match that. Not just stay behind for some inexplicable reason - The Mustang doesn't have to be the underdog to be beloved.

2011-2-14 was a lot of fun with the mustang dominating the Camaro in performance - especially after the atrocious 90s. The Coyote has the potential to exceed the LT1 even at much smaller displacement. Time for bragging rights to kick in.

And even with weight loss, the Stang will be a bit heavier. so it needs more power than the Camaro even to break even. So a good bit more power is what we are looking for.

 

[Ctease]

Interesting theory.

...It makes no sense to limit the 5.0 to 455 hp or so, when it would be easy to achieve a clean factory motor with good MPG at 470 hp...

...That's all well and good - until the Camaro comes along and smacks the Mustang down in performance again in the base and midrange performance arena...

Current 435hp/400tq makes 448hp/416tq w/+40tq @ 1,500rpm with 50-state legal Ford Performance Power Pack 1 (drop-in filter & tune)

Source:http://performance.ford.com/enthusi...om-ford-performance-parts-for-2015-17-mu.html

Mustang vs Camaro: I can't guess on either companies motives. I do think, long term, Ford has positioned Mustang better than Chevy did Camaro. It would require a very long off topic reply to explain my opinion and it's not related to cool formula I enjoy. Ford is technically winning now, with Ford GT. So maybe that will make you feel better.

 

[Marino]

Can't wait to see the official numbers to see some of your reactions. I think some here are wanting it to come out with less power so that it won't appear to be too much quicker than the current cars. That way they can say that the 2018 Mustang GTs are pointless because a 2017 can do the same with an intake and a tune. I'm locking in my bet with 475 horsepower and 430 torque and that we find out in April. I think everyone should have to leave their predicted numbers in their signature so that we can find out who was closest when the official numbers drop. :cheers:

 

[xwoodx]

Interesting theory.

I can see the logic there and see others who have certain weight to throw around thinking along the same lines.

It makes no sense to limit the 5.0 to 455 hp or so, when it would be easy to achieve a clean factory motor with good MPG at 470 hp.

Unless... there is some thinking such as you have stated - which resonates.

That's all well and good - until the Camaro comes along and smacks the Mustang down in performance again in the base and midrange performance arena.

that's just plain no fun and makes Ford look like they cannot out-engineer GM.

that being said, the LT1 is going to need some fairly major help increasing power and staying clean.

Still, I expect GM to up the Camaro SS to 470 hp soon. The standard GT needs to at least match that. Not just stay behind for some inexplicable reason - The Mustang doesn't have to be the underdog to be beloved.

2011-2-14 was a lot of fun with the mustang dominating the Camaro in performance - especially after the atrocious 90s. The Coyote has the potential to exceed the LT1 even at much smaller displacement. Time for bragging rights to kick in.

And even with weight loss, the Stang will be a bit heavier. so it needs more power than the Camaro even to break even. So a good bit more power is what we are looking for.

I think 455 will fall short as it is, since the torque will still be less. Sure, 460 is "enough" and everyone will say it has more power, ignoring the fact it has less torque because it has more gears, but reality would mean it's still playing second fiddle.

Ford loves to outdo GM, which is why I am starting to think we are looking at 470hp. Oddly, GM doesn't seem to respond to that type of game and they will probably keep the Camaro humming along at 455hp. If they do make an update, it will be at the MCE, 2019 perhaps?

 

[Seceda91]

Interesting theory.

I can see the logic there and see others who have certain weight to throw around thinking along the same lines.

It makes no sense to limit the 5.0 to 455 hp or so, when it would be easy to achieve a clean factory motor with good MPG at 470 hp.

Unless... there is some thinking such as you have stated - which resonates.

That's all well and good - until the Camaro comes along and smacks the Mustang down in performance again in the base and midrange performance arena.

that's just plain no fun and makes Ford look like they cannot out-engineer GM.

that being said, the LT1 is going to need some fairly major help increasing power and staying clean.

Still, I expect GM to up the Camaro SS to 470 hp soon. The standard GT needs to at least match that. Not just stay behind for some inexplicable reason - The Mustang doesn't have to be the underdog to be beloved.

2011-2-14 was a lot of fun with the mustang dominating the Camaro in performance - especially after the atrocious 90s. The Coyote has the potential to exceed the LT1 even at much smaller displacement. Time for bragging rights to kick in.

And even with weight loss, the Stang will be a bit heavier. so it needs more power than the Camaro even to break even. So a good bit more power is what we are looking for.

Good points but I will say the Camaro usually won't see a HP bump anytime soon. GM always shares powerplants and rarely have small jumps until a new engine comes along. The 2010 LS3 had 426/420 and still has 426/420 in 2015.

The LT1 with the Alpha chassis is probably as good as it gets for now and anything better will be tapping into the 11's.

All Ford needs to do is at least match the HP and increase a good amount of torque since I highly doubted the 2018 will have a weight reduction.

 

[xwoodx]

The Camaro might not be around for a mid cycle refresh if their sales keep up (or down) like 2016. I think Ford is happy with 100k mustangs being sold a year. The first year was just crazy because the '15 looked so much better than the previous 10 years of retro.

The sales are not that bad. They're about what they used to be, the difference is the Mustang sales skyrocketted when the S550 came out, Camaro just stayed flat. Still outsells the Challenger and no one is thinking the Challenger fee is on its deathbed. I'm sure as a whole it's a money maker, just not as much as they thought it would be.

 

[1320']

The sales are not that bad. They're about what they used to be, the difference is the Mustang sales skyrocketted when the S550 came out, Camaro just stayed flat. Still outsells the Challenger and no one is thinking the Challenger fee is on its deathbed. I'm sure as a whole it's a money maker, just not as much as they thought it would be.

The Camaro hasn't stayed flat..it's actually dropped in sales from the 5th Generation.

The Challenger has actually outsold the Camaro a few months, and those were Gen 6 Camaros too..not the old Zeta based Gen 5's.

 

[5pointOh]

Dodge has paid off the investment in the Challenger/Charger/300 platform already so anything they sell is profit for them.

 

[xwoodx]

The Camaro hasn't stayed flat..it's actually dropped in sales from the 5th Generation.

The Challenger has actually outsold the Camaro a few months, and those were Gen 6 Camaros too..not the old Zeta based Gen 5's.

I found this on a google search

Like I said, they're not that bad. Ford just saw a spike but no where near where they were 10-12 years ago.

 

[legendary mustang]

Wait what happened to the Camaro from 03-09? Jk jk

it was a piece of crap,so the mustang killed it!:lol::ford::cheers:

Sponsored