PMAS question

[ArabianOak]

Easy it's on plastic so a drill and sharp knife can do it. Even easier if you have a dremel with cutting tool.

Did you use the Dremel while the grill was still on the car?

I might start there and see if my temps go down with that mod alone. Then add 350 snorkel.

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[Terminator2]

I wonder if this Stang is stuck at 435 crank hp with the stock intake box... Has anyone measure the actual size of the snorkel to the diameter of the TB?

No but I bet anything removing the stock box on that setup could easily yield 30-40whp gains. That blower is trying to pull over 1000cfm through a box designed to flow half of that.

 

[Gibbo205]

Did you use the Dremel while the grill was still on the car?

I might start there and see if my temps go down with that mod alone. Then add 350 snorkel.

For the cars grill I used a drill to fully open all the honey combs.

 

[ArabianOak]

What size and kind of drill bit would you recd?

 

[Gibbo205]

I bet my car is faster with higher Iat and no snorkel:cheers:

Unlikely our cars will ever meet due to the giant pond in the way. ;)

Best I can see free is the in accurate track apps lol 0-60 in 4.8s and 0-100 in 10.7s

 

[Gibbo205]

Hi there


So I made my final modifications to the PMAS heatshield to further improve flow, force more air to the filter and keep IAT's as low as possible:

- Yes it looks pretty ugly, but once in the car you cannot see the ducting or cutting up.
- The hole on the wing side, it is pointless opening it up further because any larger hole is blocked by the cars sheet metal.
- The hole on the wing side has a large duct cable tied to it hence all the small holes around the larger hole to run cable ties through to secure the ducting on wing side which runs to the bottom of the car behind front splitter and is cable tied to that front splitter to hold it in position. This allows cold fresh air to be sucked up, but it is not sealed to prevent any water/dirt being sucked up.
- The hole in the bottom of the box has the ducting inserted as seen, this is held in tight as the hole is slightly smaller than ducting. This ducting is sitting behind the lower grill where the car gets plenty of fresh air and as such air is slightly force fed at momentum into the air box.
- Main front GT350 duct is linked to the fully opened front grill with velossa big mouth, this forces huge amounts of air into the heatshield at speed resulting in the intake not sucking air through the hole (now larger) in the heatshield at momentum due to positive air pressure. Think of it like pulling a car, if you try to pull a car it is very difficult, takes a lot of strength, but if you have a buddy pushing the car and you pulling it, well it becomes easy.


In short the heatshield now has more flow potential even with the car stationary and once the car has momentum flow potential is greater for sure as the combined opening in the heatshield is now double what it was previously. More importantly the air entering the heatshield is now much colder denser air from outside the car and not hot engine bay warm air. Even better with momentum negative pressure has being reduced, it will never become positive pressure because this is an open heatshield design, to achieve RAM air it would need to be a sealed box design, but reducing negative pressure as much as possible is always a plus.

Once car is back together in next day or two I shall take some more pictures including of how the ducting is routed and secured on the bottom of the car.


In short flow increased, IAT's vastly reduced and more positive air pressure.


PMAS did not do this because if they put in their instructions that you needed to hack you front grill, fit ducting behind the grill, then fit more ducting to the heatshield and more ducting again, well it makes install harder, increases cost and a lot of customers do not want to hack stuff and are also not interested in further improving an already proven and great CAI. But some of us are always looking for ways to improve things further who have time on our hands to waste and happy to spend some additional monies.

 

[ArabianOak]

Well I drove around a bit this morning to see if drilling holes in the front grill as gibbo did made any difference and it did! My IAT temps were cooler by a few degrees. Same temp outside as when I monitored them last.

So for those looking to allow a little more that might be the easiest and fastest way to start.

I'll be following gibbo on this one though.

 

[Gibbo205]

Well I drove around a bit this morning to see if drilling holes in the front grill as gibbo did made any difference and it did! My IAT temps were cooler by a few degrees. Same temp outside as when I monitored them last.

So for those looking to allow a little more that might be the easiest and fastest way to start.

I'll be following gibbo on this one though.

The front grill mod is the easiest and is also free, to be honest every owner should do this because it will benefit all intakes, not just PMAS. By doing this you lower IAT and increase positive air pressure, this 100% gives your more horsepower and improvement in throttle response.

Next step for you is Velossa big mouth, check the Velossa thread as I think they have some good deals going. Again the Velossa will benefit all intakes, stock and aftermarket so is well worth doing.

 

[ArabianOak]

The front grill mod is the easiest and is also free, to be honest every owner should do this because it will benefit all intakes, not just PMAS. By doing this you lower IAT and increase positive air pressure, this 100% gives your more horsepower and improvement in throttle response.

Next step for you is Velossa big mouth, check the Velossa thread as I think they have some good deals going. Again the Velossa will benefit all intakes, stock and aftermarket so is well worth doing.

Well now I went ahead and cut the snorkel part of my old intake and added it to the snorkel coming out of the front grill (like the stock set up but going into the pmas)

I don't understand how that could be any type of choke point especially if your opening up the very restrictive front grill area...

haha...you got me thinking now gibbo!

I'm assuming with this setup I would not need the gt350 snorkel or big mouth mod,,,,correct?

i'm gonna go drive more here soon as well.

 

[Gibbo205]

Well now I went ahead and cut the snorkel part of my old intake and added it to the snorkel coming out of the front grill (like the stock set up but going into the pmas)

I don't understand how that could be any type of choke point especially if your opening up the very restrictive front grill area...

haha...you got me thinking now gibbo!

I'm assuming with this setup I would not need the gt350 snorkel or big mouth mod,,,,correct?

i'm gonna go drive more here soon as well.

You won't need GT 350 duct no, the stock air box has an even larger duct due to being a closed air box so the only place if can pull air is through that duct.

GT 350 duct is smaller because the GT 350 uses an open filter so it can pull air from above as they never seal perfectly. But the GT 350 duct is still larger than the opening on PMAS heatshield.


The Velossa big mouth you should still do, because if you look closely you will see behind the grill you have opened up there is a good 1-2" gap between the front grill and the ducting, so all the air entering the grill does not find its way to the air intake, the velossa big mouth extends the stock ducting right upto behind the grill you just opened up, mean all air entering the grill is forced into stock air box (RAM AIR), you won't get ram air effect on PMAS but all air entering the grill will find its way to the PMAS heatshield and filter further reducing IAT and increasing air pressure.

Hope that explains it.

 

[Gibbo205]

Hi there


OK so got the intake all back into the car:


1. Here is a picture showing the GT350 duct inserted into PMAS heatshield and to the right of that is the second large hole I cut out which has 5" diameter hosing running from the hole (wing side) down to the bottom of the car where fresh air, pictures below:

So you can see how that works, I may re-position the orientation of the duct underneath, be even better if I can construct an air scoop and connect to that hose though so it catches the air forcing it into the intake.





2. Here is picture of the smaller hose that is in the bottom of the air box, this is in the front of the car to the side positioned behind the lower grill, it is very hard to see:

From outside the car you cannot see this and even though its getting force fed air not as sure on the effectiveness as the ducting is in the hotter area of the engine bay so air running through it might get warmed up and might not, hard to tell.




3. How it looks typically:

So as can be seen the hacking and modifications cannot be seen.


Also the keen eye people who spot my maf is in the upper position and outside the heatshield is for good reason.

The race team I took my car too said by having the maf inside the heatshield results in the filter being right up against the wing, meaning it sits higher in the heatshield. As such when the hood is down it will be a lot closer to the top of the filter and potentially restrict flow.

They said get it as low as possible in the box this way the full 360degrees of the filter can pull air without restriction. So if your filter is high in the heatshield, try to get it lower, you don't want the hood blocking of flow to the top of the filter.

They also said it does not matter if the maf is inside or outside the heatshield if there is enough fresh air and positive air pressure available, because then the air the intake is pulling will be denser and colder and as such the IAT should be very close to ambient irrelevant of where the maf sensor is.

Did a short drive tonight, but it was late and its very warm sticky mild night but still temperaturs remained 2-3c above ambient during a 30 minute drive, apart from that could not feel any difference.

 

[Gibbo205]

HI there


A little update:

- High speed driving, no real reducting in IAT's, hold at 2-3c above ambient temperature, which matches the stock intake with opened up grill.
- Low speed driving, Seems to be 1-2c improvement, hold 3-5c above ambient.
- Stop light, biggest improvement is here, the temperature seems to hardly increase within the first 1-2 minutes of being stopped, 6-8c above ambient, it takes a few minutes now to exceed 10c above ambient.
- Traffic jams, so 1st gear 5mph, stop, 5mph, stop, 5mph, stop for 10 minutes plus, eventually it will get to around 20c above ambient and hold there, which is a huge improvement from the original 40-50c above ambient. Also the difference is now even just pulling away in 1st gear with hardly any throttle and the temperature tumbles.


I am sure I can perfect the ducting some more to force more air towards the intake with some re-positioning of the lower ducts.

I cannot comment on whether the car feels quicker because any gain from this horsepower wise will be minimal. What I have noticed is improved throttle response at lower RPMs.

In short if your suffering from high IAT's with PMAS my modifications have resolved the issue. I shall report back over long term if any improvement in fuel economy as an engine breathing fresher air tends to also be more efficient economy wise, so lets see but I am doubting any gains as economy gains tend to only come from true RAM air systems when there is positive air pressure.

 

[16s550]

How long do you think IAT will remain high while at WOT? I think this great big intake will suck all the hot air out in a matter of seconds. All that you are experimenting with appears to be over kill. The snorkel still appears to be a choking point because it limits how much hair can be pulled through the original opening by pmas. One thing I do agree with is opening up the honey comes for stock grill.

 

[PatrickGT]

What is the obsession with IATs on non-boosted cars anyway?

 

[16s550]

What is the obsession with IATs on non-boosted cars anyway?

No idea. Maybe they want to race in traffic?

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