Persistent Idle Misfire

[Pistol_91]

I have nearly 4-year-old stock plugs mushed down to .30. No misfires or issues there. I also wire brushed the hell out of them though before I reinstalled them. They've been in for about 4 months now, zero issues. It's got to be the throttle body. I'd be willing to bet if you put a smaller one on there the issues would go away. Do you have any datalogs?

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[Daryl333]

I have nearly 4-year-old stock plugs mushed down to .30. No misfires or issues there. I also wire brushed the hell out of them though before I reinstalled them. They've been in for about 4 months now, zero issues. It's got to be the throttle body. I'd be willing to bet if you put a smaller one on there the issues would go away. Do you have any datalogs?

Logs with different revisions have been gone over by Lund and Wengerd both said they were good. Fuel trims, injector cycles etc all good. And my relationship with both of them is over due to on-going down hill negative conversations about this. This misfire problem has been going on for close to a year. After many calibrations the blame was on my car Which I have to agree with at this point.
I've been told by the tuners that if it was a major part like the TB it would be throwing codes and showing up in the logs. And it's a very expensive endeavor to change out a Whipple TB. But maybe a Voltage test is in order.

 

[Daryl333]

Take a look at the GT500 NGK plugs,
Platinum ground, factory gap set at .039

I'll look into them but that is a whole different Motor etc. I wouldn't feel comfortable going against 2 different tuners recommended plugs. I'd be asking for trouble.

 

[GregO]

I'll look into them but that is a whole different Motor etc. I wouldn't feel comfortable going against 2 different tuners recommended plugs. I'd be asking for trouble.

Not really.
Ask your tuner.
Heat range is right, dimensions are the same. The ground electrode is platinum.

 

[Pistol_91]

So, you're saying your car is a lemon after installing a Whipple? Interesting. This should not be happening. Sounds tune related to me since you literally have replaced almost everything that could possibly cause this issue. Your car isn't going to throw a code if your SD model or idle values are jacked up. Good luck.

 

[Daryl333]

So, you're saying your car is a lemon after installing a Whipple? Interesting. This should not be happening. Sounds tune related to me since you literally have replaced almost everything that could possibly cause this issue. Your car isn't going to throw a code if your SD model or idle values are jacked up. Good luck.

I wouldn't go as far as it being a lemon.
Just every once in a while it hesitates when I hit the pedal at mid RPMs. Which is not the end of the world but shouldn't happen.
And and Idle misfire which doesn't have anything to do with drivability or performance.
I am going to get a tune built from scratch from a guy when I put my Summer wheels/tires back on. So will be able to converse and go over logs/drivability etc with the tuner face to face.
Once you mention a misfire with remote tuners EVERYTHING becomes a mechanical issue and they will not listen anymore. Or accept anymore logs. You know because their tunes are quote
"tried and true" of course.
But thx for your input Pistol_91

 

[ZXMustang]

So are you just seeing misfires in the logs or are you actually FEELING something? I see random misfires in my logs too. Nothing I ever feel and I know my car is straight DIALED. You are saying you have this problem, but what exactly is the problem? Again is it shaking or stumbling at idle?? Or just seeing the logs. You said no codes too right?

Also what are your fuel trims at idle? I'd be turning off the long terms at this point. One thing I have seen and saw in my car was that my maf was a tad off at low idle and also at a certain RPM, the maf period was bouncing between two cells in the tune. And if you dont have those two cells PERFECTLY dialed, the car will have a bit of a wave in the logs to the idle. Like its going up and down consistently. You almost need to rescale the maf or really finely tune it with the short term trims. This is something that most tuners wont get too deep into.

I can reach out and give you a number of someone that can and is willing to help.

 

[Torinate]

I’ve tried both the 6510 and Ford Racing M-12405-M50A gapped at 28. For my car, which Daryl and I have compared notes, has the idle misfire. Yes, you can feel it at idle. You can audibly hear it as well. A definitive pop with Forscan registering it as a misfire. Not enough to set a code though.

What’s the reason for the off idle bog when stabbing the gas? Who knows. Tuners have straight out said they don’t want to be mail order mechanics and I was told I could send a log but they already know they won’t find anything wrong with the tune. Likely wouldn’t bother even looking…. I have tried 2 different throttle bodies and there was zero difference between them. I ruled that out. I moved coils around and nothing followed The misfires are all over the place as far as cylinders. Occasionally I get a true back fire (after fire?) out the exhaust on decel and it only happens once. I have a ford mechanic friend (yes - ford certified) that is actually a true car guy and I’ve went over everything I’ve tried and he’s out of options as well. Unlike Daryl, I haven’t thrown a ton of parts at it yet. I know it’s frustrating for Daryl as he has. Those parts add up especially when they’re not the answer.

I’m glad he posted this. Similar issues and maybe someone will have an off the wall idea that may work.

@GregO what’s the easiest or best way to log the misfires? What’s another method of trying to find the actual source of them?

Thanks

 

[ZXMustang]

I’ve tried both the 6510 and Ford Racing M-12405-M50A gapped at 28. For my car, which Daryl and I have compared notes, has the idle misfire. Yes, you can feel it at idle. You can audibly hear it as well. A definitive pop with Forscan registering it as a misfire. Not enough to set a code though.

What’s the reason for the off idle bog when stabbing the gas? Who knows. Tuners have straight out said they don’t want to be mail order mechanics and I was told I could send a log but they already know they won’t find anything wrong with the tune. Likely wouldn’t bother even looking…. I have tried 2 different throttle bodies and there was zero difference between them. I ruled that out. I moved coils around and nothing followed The misfires are all over the place as far as cylinders. Occasionally I get a true back fire (after fire?) out the exhaust on decel and it only happens once. I have a ford mechanic friend (yes - ford certified) that is actually a true car guy and I’ve went over everything I’ve tried and he’s out of options as well. Unlike Daryl, I haven’t thrown a ton of parts at it yet. I know it’s frustrating for Daryl as he has. Those parts add up especially when they’re not the answer.

I’m glad he posted this. Similar issues and maybe someone will have an off the wall idea that may work.

@GregO what’s the easiest or best way to log the misfires? What’s another method of trying to find the actual source of them?

Thanks

Do you have your tune file you can look at? Are you able to look at HPTuners logs as well? What’s your tuning setup?

 

[GregO]

@GregO what’s the easiest or best way to log the misfires? What’s another method of trying to find the actual source of them?

I don’t know about logging misfires. I’m just focused on electrical anomalies, grounding issues, spark plug type and air gaps, coil issues such as weak output or connection issues.
The symptoms in my unprofessional opinion resemble EMI/RFI interference.

 

[Torinate]

No. Tuned by Lund. Can’t look at crap.
Tried uploading a short video but it’s too large? Grr.

 

[Torinate]

Right when I step on the gas. Rpm’s drop and then pick up. So hard to capture in a video.

 

[ZXMustang]

No. Tuned by Lund. Can’t look at crap.
Tried uploading a short video but it’s too large? Grr.

See you bought into the hype. And the hype has now bit you. Sucks man sorry. You will need to get out the wallet now and get an RTD and a laptop setup so you can do some real logs. Let a real tuner help you the correct way. Once you can get a real log that you can share, hell you could post it on the HP Tuners forum for all to look and I bet they will find the problem in about 10 seconds for you. Lesson learned...

 

[Torinate]

lol.

Actually a forum member here converted a log and I posted on the HP forum as well…. No real answers there either unfortunately. When you say real tune, who exactly are you thinking as far as “real tune”?

Bought into the hype? I don’t follow. So far, I’ve talked with people who have this same issue with Wengerd, VMP and Lund.

I have no problem getting out the wallet! I’d love to be able to just pay the money and get it salted away. Unfortunately, tuner fan boys rave about this or that while the guys with issues get beaten down or dismissed by such. I would absolutely love to tune the car myself. But I don’t have the knowledge or skill set to do so. So like 99.9 % of the people here that can’t tune themselves I have to follow along and take things with a grain of salt. Who is the god of tunes? Depends on what thread you go to. Who has the least amount of issues? Depends on what thread you go to. I wish it was as easy as you say, get a real tune… if you’re implying Lund is the issue, I would fathom a guess that their percentage of satisfied customers would be right in line with all the others. The difference is who will actually take the time to work through issues when they come up. Lund won’t. VMP won’t. Wengerd dismisses you, PBD has had some criticism as well. So if you know something I don’t and can guarantee that a certain person or company will absolutely work with a customer to 100% guarantee complete satisfaction and work through this type of issue to resolve it, I’ll gladly take my wallet that way.

But right now, I haven’t the confidence to do that. Hence, asking the questions to look for answers from guys who may have gone through this already and determined the root cause.

I don’t even know if this is some mechanical issue of some sort or an actual tune problem. That’s my dilemma. Mechanic says mechanically perfect. Tuner says tune is perfect. Car says misfire bog pop and hesitate.

 

[ZXMustang]

lol.

Actually a forum member here converted a log and I posted on the HP forum as well…. No real answers there either unfortunately. When you say real tune, who exactly are you thinking as far as “real tune”?

Bought into the hype? I don’t follow. So far, I’ve talked with people who have this same issue with Wengerd, VMP and Lund.

I have no problem getting out the wallet! I’d love to be able to just pay the money and get it salted away. Unfortunately, tuner fan boys rave about this or that while the guys with issues get beaten down or dismissed by such. I would absolutely love to tune the car myself. But I don’t have the knowledge or skill set to do so. So like 99.9 % of the people here that can’t tune themselves I have to follow along and take things with a grain of salt. Who is the god of tunes? Depends on what thread you go to. Who has the least amount of issues? Depends on what thread you go to. I wish it was as easy as you say, get a real tune… if you’re implying Lund is the issue, I would fathom a guess that their percentage of satisfied customers would be right in line with all the others. The difference is who will actually take the time to work through issues when they come up. Lund won’t. VMP won’t. Wengerd dismisses you, PBD has had some criticism as well. So if you know something I don’t and can guarantee that a certain person or company will absolutely work with a customer to 100% guarantee complete satisfaction and work through this type of issue to resolve it, I’ll gladly take my wallet that way.

But right now, I haven’t the confidence to do that. Hence, asking the questions to look for answers from guys who may have gone through this already and determined the root cause.

I don’t even know if this is some mechanical issue of some sort or an actual tune problem. That’s my dilemma. Mechanic says mechanically perfect. Tuner says tune is perfect. Car says misfire bog pop and hesitate.

I'll PM you.

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