Pd blower in very hot climate

Discussion in 'Forced Induction - 5.0L V8 Engine' started by Furious18, Feb 17, 2020.

  1. OP
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    Furious18

    Furious18 Well-Known Member

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    I def don’t think it’ll get so hot it’ll pull timing unless I’m a jackass. I think cooling is an overlooked aspect of power and longevity. Anything reasonably simple/cost effective, seems worth it to me
     
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    Furious18

    Furious18 Well-Known Member

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    I asked vmp. Nothing needed but a potentially longer belt depending on how tight it is
     
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  3. Ruiner46

    Ruiner46 Well-Known Member

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    I have a gen 2 whipple on a 2016. The only thing I had to do was remove the upper most bolt on the pulley bracket. I have an older kit with the 106.6" belt, and I didn't have to change belt size.
     
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  4. Woopaloop

    Woopaloop Well-Known Member

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    Meth/water setup would work really well because of the low humidity. I'm going with an external ice tank in my trunk, otherwise IATs get crazy when it's 100+ outside.
     
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  5. Roh92cp

    Roh92cp Well-Known Member

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    This is a great topic and very important obviously for many reasons...power, safety and longevity come to mind.

    The problem is these threads get jacked up with lots of antidotal responses, and not much real eveidance or accurate data. So far this one not so much.

    IAT numbers get thrown around with little real understanding of where these numbers come from and if it's accurate. Unless one has a dedicated IAT2 (post blower) sensor and a dedicated system to read it the data is not going to be accurate.

    Here lies the problem with IAT2 info.

    1. Break out harness setups (like VMP) which many have steals the signal from the MAF to read it's dedicated sensor, but the stock PCM doesn't display it accurately through an Ngauge. It typically doesn't respond very fast and can be offff from true verified data by as much as 25 degrees F showing always lower temps.

    2. PCM PID data read through and Ngauge or other OBD2 type scanner WITH WHIPPLE, VMP, LUND, or other calibrations using there IAT sensor is very slow and inaccurate when compared to a true dedicated IAT2 sensor and system.

    I've tested this with 2 dedicated sensor at the same time (PLX system and Zeitronix ZT-2) so I had 3 data points to compare at the same time. The dedicated setups PLX and ZT2 were almost the same confirming them and the other data was always off from 10-25 F showing lower inaccurate temps.

    Long story short I've tested meth, VMP phenolic spacers larger heat exchanger and high flow EMP pump with complete 1" ID system and VMP heat spacers made the biggest deference that I was not expecting at all. 30 degree drop in IAT2 is amazing even after sitting and idling in the heat.

    The big pump, 1" lines and 1" large heat exchanger and IC makes for a really stable system that doesn't spike in temps under WOT or decelerations and from those transitions where temps usually spike and take long time to recover with normal setups.

    Very strangely meth never showed much change in IAT2 even when spraying big which killed power. I use Meth for added octane mainly with 93 fuel and 10 0z of boostane.
     
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  6. Burkey

    Burkey Well-Known Member

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    #21 Burkey, Feb 26, 2020
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2020
    How does the dash reading compare to the data on the Ngauge?
    I can’t compare the two in real time because the Ngauge reads *f where my dash reads *c (because Australia). I don’t look at the Ngauge data for IAT post blower.
     
  7. Roh92cp

    Roh92cp Well-Known Member

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    The dash of course without breakout harness will read IAT1 pre blower. With breakout then it reads the IAT2, but not real accurate as I’ve described above.
     
  8. Burkey

    Burkey Well-Known Member

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    Cool, that’s what I was confirming. Breakout reads incorrectly regardless of display used. :thumbsup:
     
  9. markmurfie

    markmurfie Well-Known Member

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    #24 markmurfie, Feb 27, 2020
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2020
    MFP phenolic spacers sold by VMP are awesome. Add 3/4-1" to the list of belt sizes for each pulley whipple recommends. I imagine other PD setups would be similar. They seem high priced, but they are truly a bargain for what you get and all the way from australia.

    Clean the bugs/ bird feathers/ leaves/ pollen /plastic bags out of your grill and radiators. So many cars, even with low mileage on them, start to run hot because of over looking this simple step. It can be tough making sure the heat exchanger, evaporator, trans cooler, and radiator are all cleaned out as they are sandwiched in there, but if any of them are clogged thats not good. That brings me to catch cans or even venting the crank case totally away from your intake(about as legal as removing the cats). If your crank case oil is making it into your intake, its making it to the intercooler. When that thing gets covered in oil/ sludge, it doesn't work well at all. This can happen in less than one oil change every 5000 miles. If its dirty its a PIA to clean, don't let it get dirty.

    filling cap seals, if your coolant system is not building pressure as water temperatures go up it is not operating correctly and not at all, as well as it should. An air bubble is necessary to prevent stressing things from the water expansion, but shouldn't be excessive in its volume in the system, and certainly not large enough that air is allowed to flow through the system.

    The other thing is your water/ antifreeze ratio. 50/50 it usually recommended for daily drivers who just don't want to think about it until three years or 50,000 miles and its time to change it. The effect of running a 70/30 or 80/20
    water/ antifreeze ratio effect on how well your cooling system's work is bigger than most think. I think it would be worth flushing it and adding the appropriate ratio every spring and every fall.

    Water/meth I think is a great option, but you probably won't really see the IAT improvement as it only sprays briefly when the blower is generating boost and heating the air. Another time that lots of heat is generated is Higher RPM and low throttle angle, the air is basically circulating through the supercharger and bypass valve getting hotter and hotter each time its compressed. High RPM engine decel causes IATs to sky rocket and the manifold and supercharger temps probably shoot up as well. Meth isnt going to help this unless you go WOT to get into boost again and not do high RPM engine decel again right after. This is what goes through my head every time I hear a DCT GT500 downshift, and I love down shift engine braking.

    An ice tank is a PIA and really only meant for max effort 1/4 runs as thats about as long of the ice last. Between constantly draining water and filling it with ice. You can then put the system on a manually switched pump and only have the ice cold water flow when you want it and stopping it to maximize loss of ice, but that only helps so much and leaves it to you to forget to turn it on. I really think just a well operating system keeping IAT2 no more than 20-30* above ambient is far more desirable to the majority of people.
     
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    Furious18

    Furious18 Well-Known Member

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    Thanks everyone.. especially Roh92cp and Mark.

    I too feel that cooling is way overlooked. It’s 50-60 degrees here and I see iat at 100. This is with 70% water and everything working correctly with the eb 2650 e85. I can imagine it’s going to be very high when temps are 117f lol

    Im going to install the spacers first. With the gen 3, I’m not sure if the hood clearance is there.

    I don’t think any of this is a design issue. Just the reality of forced induction and decent power.

    I think my trans tuning doesn’t help. Low rpm with load brings boost on. When I drive normal in sport mode, it’ll carry the rpm higher and down shift without going into boost. This seems to keep normal driving iat down
     
  11. Logan@Lethal

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    We run a Gen5 Whipple on our 2018 Mustang. It has a 3.5" upper / 20 % lower, catless headers, the usual. We do run e85 full time..
    We live in South Florida and it is brutal down here between the heat and humidity.

    For cooling, we elected for the oversized HE from Whipple and a PNR ice tank. We were curious to see how much the ice tank actually helps... so we took logs and recorded all the information here: https://www.lethalperformance.com/info/pnr-tank/

    Feel free to let me know if you have any questions or if we can help out with a similar setup. :)
     
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  12. OP
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    Furious18

    Furious18 Well-Known Member

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    I actually saw that data, it’s one of the reasons I thought about adding the tank even for the street.
     
  13. Logan@Lethal

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    With the correct pump, it's a great addition to a blower system. Let me know if I can help out with one.
     
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