Passed on an S650, I posted this in the S650 forums as well...

[Bman5150]

The M cars have different materials as far as the leather and so on. M2 is in another league from the 230i. That being said, I have an S550 the materials in it aren't even close to the bimmer. Yes the looks of the interior is cooler but the build quality is not in the same league as the bimmer.

What year M2 were you looking at. The G87?

yes; the g87. Keep in mind that I did not actually look at the m2 - only sat in and test drove a 230i because there were no M2s anywhere to be found. I considered ordering one but when the BMW dealer told me the interior of the M2 was super similar except steering wheel and seating, that was a major turnoff to me. The 230i had hard surfaces everywhere from the door panels to large parts of the dash. Maybe the m2 does not. It certainly seemed well-put together I’ll give the bmw that. I guess I was just super disappointed since it wasn’t even close to as nice as the interior of my 2011 335xi. I absolutely loved that car when it wasn’t being recalled or being repaired (I’m not kidding either.)

one thing for sure though, the m240i and M2 are excellent performing cars. And the noise an inline 6 makes is one of the best engine notes there is.

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[MidwayJ]

I drove the car in Track Mode and the steering was set at sport and there was no feel. It felt like I was using an XBox controller.

One of the selling points was that Ford improved the steering. It felt like I was driving a Ford LTD Broughm (just dated myself).

I've been puzzled by this. Reviewers like Thomas from Throttle House reached the same conclusion about the steering feel, but some reviewers have said it's better than the S550. All the reviews I've seen saying steering feel is improved have been Dark Horse reviews, but I don't think the DH is any different.

The last part, was the cost of the car even with $3k off and current financing put the car payment just at $1k a month. No freaking way!!! I can lease the same M2 for just under $900 per month. I like to lease as I get the tax write-off.

You like to lease BMWs for the tax write-off but not Mustangs? The reason I would lease a BMW (or any European car) is the repair costs after the warranty is up.

 

[Dragster]

I'm happy we still have a RWD, manual, ICE Mustang, but like someone else said, I think the S650 is pretty low effort. It's a reskinned S550 with a new dash. They didn't even change the door panels or other interior bits--it's just the dash. As a result, I don't see anyone trading in an S550 for one unless you just love the new style or digital screens, or if your warranty is up and you feel compelled to have a new car with a warranty. Most times when a car gets a new generation, there are performance upgrades that many people will trade for, but even though there's more hp in the S650, the difference is negligible due to the increased weight (why did Ford go to steel fenders instead of aluminum???). It's also not even a full restyle on the inside since basically everything other than the dash is the same. When you couple that with the increase in cost due to inflation and interest rates, I don't see much reason for S550 owners to trade.

With that said, I think the S650 is a good option for those currently without Mustangs or for owners of older Mustangs looking for something new. The S650 is undoubtedly an upgrade over older gens. However, when you look at the price compared to some of the other options out there, there are definintely things that give me pause such as some of the interior trim (that fake carbon fiber stuff is AWFUL and has no place in a car costing 50K+) and the overall fit and finish of the car.

 

[s3ltz3r]

I've been puzzled by this. Reviewers like Thomas from Throttle House reached the same conclusion about the steering feel, but some reviewers have said it's better than the S550. All the reviews I've seen saying steering feel is improved have been Dark Horse reviews, but I don't think the DH is any different.



You like to lease BMWs for the tax write-off but not Mustangs? The reason I would lease a BMW (or any European car) is the repair costs after the warranty is up.

Personally, the S650 is summed up in one question...

What would Gen Z want?

And the answers are...numb steering feeling, no American legacy, screens, cool screen graphics, cool sound, gimmicks, and cool looks.

Performance is optional, hence the locked ECU.

 

[shogun32]

Performance is optional, hence the locked ECU.

That has far more to do with jack booted thugs from the EPA than any Gen z pathology

 

[Dave2013M3]

I've been puzzled by this. Reviewers like Thomas from Throttle House reached the same conclusion about the steering feel, but some reviewers have said it's better than the S550. All the reviews I've seen saying steering feel is improved have been Dark Horse reviews, but I don't think the DH is any different.



You like to lease BMWs for the tax write-off but not Mustangs? The reason I would lease a BMW (or any European car) is the repair costs after the warranty is up.

1. Thats why I had to drive the car myself. I too read conflicting reviews on the steering. Also, from my understanding is that the DH got a lot of the GT350 steering gear. I stand by my statement that the steering had about as much feel as an XBox controller. I also wondered if it was the new summer PZero's Ford uses for the Mustang vs. the Mich PS4S that the 2018-2021 cars got with the PP.

2. The payment I quoted for the Mustang was a lease, the BMW M2 which stickered for $3k more the payment was less by $100.00. I am self employed and I can take advantage that leasing brings to the table. We have a 2022 Bronco Sport Badlands which is currently leased but I am buying this vehicle out, hence why I wanted to lease the Mustang. I have extensive experience in BMWs as I have owned 2 E46 M3s, 2 E92 M3s and a bunch in the middle. My last M3 was a 2013 that I owned since new. Not once did that car go in for warranty work nor repair, just maintenance. My 2020 Mustang GT (which I fell in love with) had a slur of issues. The car had 2 recalls, the modem failed, and my oil pan leaked not once but twice all within the first 6 mos. of ownership, yet I still love the car. I too am grateful that at least we can still buy a full ICE vehicle with a V8 and a manual transmission.

My E92 M3...almost 8 yrs. of ownership without a single issue.

Mustang in the same spot...

 

[shogun32]

I stand by my statement that the steering had about as much feel as an XBox controller.

Seconded. Or should I just #metoo?

 

[shogun32]

E92 M3...almost 8 yrs. of ownership without a single issue.

I think the magic was that it was red. That aura negated the usual and customary gremlins.

 

[tosha]

Reviewers like Thomas from Throttle House reached the same conclusion about the steering feel, but some reviewers have said it's better than the S550. All the reviews I've seen saying steering feel is improved have been Dark Horse reviews, but I don't think the DH is any different

There is no puzzle here . Take a base S550, throw some FP track (or similar Steeda, Bilstein, etc) package with shocks/springs/sway bars at it, add lightweight wheels with good real sports tires, do proper alignment and you will get a car that feels and drives completely different. That is essentially what they do with mach1 or DH. You can dial it in further with some stiffer bushings or bearings and etc. It's a relatively cheap fix thankfully.

it's not that DH has some revolutionary changes it it, it doesn't. It's the base GT suspension (and even PP1 Magneride), that is a complete crap for a sports car (they are set up for highway cruising and rental fleets). S650 GT has the same problem.

 

[Dave2013M3]

I think the magic was that it was red. That aura negated the usual and customary gremlins.

Could be, both my E46 M3s were Imola Red!!!

 

[Dave2013M3]

There is no puzzle here . Take a base S550, throw some FP track (or similar Steeda, Bilstein, etc) package with shocks/springs/sway bars at it, add lightweight wheels with good real sports tires, do proper alignment and you will get a car that feels and drives completely different. That is essentially what they do with mach1 or DH. You can dial it in further with some stiffer bushings or bearings and etc. It's a relatively cheap fix thankfully.

it's not that DH has some revolutionary changes it it, it doesn't. It's the base GT suspension (and even PP1 Magneride), that is a complete crap for a sports car (they are set up for highway cruising and rental fleets). S650 GT has the same problem.

Hence the rub, I realized not only would I be getting into debt with a car that wasn't as good as what I was currently driving, but I would have to sink another $5-6K of mods just to get back to where I was with the added debt.

Whats funny is the mods you mentioned is what I did on my 2020 Mustang GT. Did you read my signature?

 

[s3ltz3r]

That has far more to do with jack booted thugs from the EPA than any Gen z pathology

No. Ford literally used a 30sh Gen Z employees, and asked them what they looked for in a vehicle. And the S650 was produced. It was a Gen Z focus group.

So to understand th S650, just ask yourself:

What would Gen Z want?

Anything a TiK Tok generation would want....appearance and clout.

 

[shogun32]

It was a Gen Z focus group.

I guess they forgot to ask if anyone could afford it. Or would choose it once it was rubbing up against many others at the new price point. Unless their answer was EcoBoost or nothing...

 

[MAGS1]

No. Ford literally used a 30sh Gen Z employees, and asked them what they looked for in a vehicle. And the S650 was produced. It was a Gen Z focus group.

So to understand th S650, just ask yourself:

What would Gen Z want?

Anything a TiK Tok generation would want....appearance and clout.

Except the locked ECU is very much EPA related. Ford controls who gets access so emissions controls can’t be defeated. Ford picks the vendors for boost (currently Whipple) so they can control the tune and make sure it remains compliant.

The other stuff within the car is very much likely a bunch of 20-30 somethings focus groups.

 

[MidwayJ]

There is no puzzle here . Take a base S550, throw some FP track (or similar Steeda, Bilstein, etc) package with shocks/springs/sway bars at it, add lightweight wheels with good real sports tires, do proper alignment and you will get a car that feels and drives completely different. That is essentially what they do with mach1 or DH. You can dial it in further with some stiffer bushings or bearings and etc. It's a relatively cheap fix thankfully.

it's not that DH has some revolutionary changes it it, it doesn't. It's the base GT suspension (and even PP1 Magneride), that is a complete crap for a sports car (they are set up for highway cruising and rental fleets). S650 GT has the same problem.

I understand the overall handling dynamics are better for the Dark Horse and Mach 1 compared to the GT PP. But I'm referring to steering feel alone, i.e. what is communicated to the driver about the road and how the tires are interacting with it. Not how quickly the front end turns in, not how much the body rolls, not how well the dampers perform, etc.

The impression I've gotten from these reviews is the S650 GT feels numb compared to the S550 GT, but the Dark Horse feels as good or better than the Mach 1. Supposedly the S650 has a redesigned steering rack intended to be an improvement, so one would think there would be a consensus across the board. But perhaps I've misinterpreted some of the reviews.

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