Ouch

[Zerocool]

I have only noticed the sudden increase in winter tyres use in the uk over the past 4 years. I understand the benefits of using a winter compound and tread pattern but this is a recent change.

I have never known any uk car dealer to offer winter tyres as an initial option, although I know BMW do offer a 'winter pack' where you can swop out the summers for winters and then back again at a later date.

I've driven the Eco since January and have had dry, wet and snowy weather and have never had an issue with getting from a to b.

If I wanted winter tyres I would buy a set and put them on but honestly for the 5 days a year they would be needed it doesn't seem worth it. I can't see how so many people are getting bent out of shape over winter and summer tyres.


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[Manders Mustang]

Personally I'm not sure if this is a winter v summer issue. I think what most people are asking for is an all weather tyre that suits the UK climate (and to quote pirelli) at all tread depths.

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[stevec]

Why is that frustrating/inconclusive?
Simples.

Because at no time did they answer my question direct which is "Are the tyres that come with my car suitable for the whole year or should I change them for winter." I even asked a direct question, that being "Should I buy a set of tyres before I drive away from the showroom if the tem is under 7"

I did not ONCE ask them what the 'legal' requirements were.

What did I want from them? An answer something like this.

The P Zero is suitable for use all year around but extra care should be taken when the temperature is below their optimum performance temperature of +7

Or something like that. They did not answer my question and tell me whether it is safe to use them all year.

Personally I think it is but their refusal to answer the questions directly left me with some doubt.

I felt like I was trying to ask a direct question of a Politician.

 

[Centurion07]

They were never going to tell you that the tyres FORD buy from them in their hundreds of thousands are not really safe to use over a UK winter on a 420bhp Mustang, were they? ;)

[MENTION=15803]Zerocool[/MENTION] it's not so much that they're only needed for a few days a year, it's that using winter tyres the rest of the year is a lot safer than it is to use summer tyres on those few days where winters would be better.

I fitted winters to my taxi a couple of years ago, only a cheapass set to see what they were like, and they made a big difference.

In short, if I was in the market for a set of tyres heading into winter, I'd probably go for winters. The rest of the year, not so much, but then I'm aware of the limitations of the tyres I have fitted at any given point.

 

[GregT]

Just thought I would add an interesting but frustratingly inconclusive email chat I had with Pirelli

me
Hi There
I have a new Ford |Mustang being delivered this year. I have seen a fair bit of talk about the tyres that are being fitted (I am lead to believe they are P Zeros) and not being suitable for temperatures under 7 degrees.
I wonder if you could let me know if this is the case and that I should not use the car when the temp is under 7 degrees

Pirrelli
Pirelli believes that there are good reasons for fitting the right tyres for the right season. As such, Pirelli recommend fitting summer tyres in the summer season and winter tyres in the winter season. When the temperature drops below 7 degrees winter tyres will work optimally compared to summer tyres and vice-versa when the temperature rises above 7 degrees. Braking, handling and comfort can all be affected.

It should be noted that the performance in snow of winter tyres remains effective down to a tread depth of 4mm. Below this level they are no longer adequate for winter use but can be used as summer tyres down to the main tread minimum legal limit, set at 1.6mm.

If going outside the UK please check local legislation.

Me
Are you saying that the car should NOT be used under 7 degrees? Or just that they should not be used in snow?

Pirelli
There is no law against using summer tyres under 7 degrees. However it is recommended to use winter tyres below this temperature, for optimum performance, in both snow and dry conditions.

me
Sorry to be a pain but I am spending a lot of money on a car and it seems that picking it up in December, the first thing I will have to do before I drive away from the showroom even, is buy a new set of tyres.

I am probably reading too much in to this but are you saying if it is say 2 degrees when I pick up the car, I need tyres. Or, are you saying the tyres on the vehicle are completely safe but I wont have optimum performance?

I am asking this on behalf of several other Mustang buyers and want to feedback the right information.

Pirelli
In this country there are no safety legal requirements to use winter tyres, it is only a recommendation for optimum performance.

HOT NEWS: Pirelli Co releases its Mark 1 Android email answering service. A spokesman for the company Mr RU Burr said in a statement:
"We have reduced our front end costs considerably and this will allow us to put more resources into making better tyres."

HOT NEWS UPDATE: Pirelli Co issues the following statement "We are very sorry to announce the departure of Mr Burr for personal reasons. Please contact our online assistant (Slippery) Sally at Pirelli.co.uk for further details."

 

[stiggy]

Because at no time did they answer my question direct which is "Are the tyres that come with my car suitable for the whole year or should I change them for winter." I even asked a direct question, that being "Should I buy a set of tyres before I drive away from the showroom if the tem is under 7"

I did not ONCE ask them what the 'legal' requirements were.

What did I want from them? An answer something like this.

The P Zero is suitable for use all year around but extra care should be taken when the temperature is below their optimum performance temperature of +7

Or something like that. They did not answer my question and tell me whether it is safe to use them all year.

Personally I think it is but their refusal to answer the questions directly left me with some doubt.

I felt like I was trying to ask a direct question of a Politician.

Well, I suppose they have to be careful what they say from a legal perspective. But surely common sense says that if the tyres aren't recommended for use under 7 degrees, then that really answers the question? That's not to say you can't use them all year round, but their performance will be impaired in low temperatures.

So, to answer: "Are the tyres that come with my car suitable for the whole year or should I change them for winter."

The answer is actually yes - and yes!

 

[Manders Mustang]

I'm with you both, i understand the frustration, you're getting no direct answer and your question dodged, somewhat sounding like a 'legal response', avoiding saying tha tthe tyres are ineffective on the car/ in the weather.

As [MENTION=18440]stiggy[/MENTION] said, they're both suitable, however the Pzeros are not ideal.

Which somewhat seems negligent of ford to ignore this on a high performance car in a climate that rarely gets above 7*c for half the year - especially if daily driving the car assuming the usual 7/8am wake up the avg temperature is rarely above 7*c at that time. However, they're still 'Ok' to use, just, not the best, by far.

 

[kz]

Sorry, this will my last post in this thread. All this crying here is ridiculous. In a weather when this accident happened, all seasons would be worse. My parking neighbor drove his PP GT with summer P-Zeros well below temperatures that you ever see over in UK.

And saying that US has very warm, hot and dry climate is quite moronic things to say since I saw snowstorm in Minneapolis in May1st.

Looking at this and the accident in front of dealership from the other thread - some people need to acquire some basic skills. Or you're buying too much of a car. Tires are not at fault here, neither is Ford.

 

[SteveyB]

The answer is obvious and the solution simple. Summer tyres are not suitable for temperatures below 7C, not just these Pirellis but a whole host of tyres fitted as standard to higher performance cars. The solution makes sound financial and safety sense; if you intend keeping your car until it eventually needs new boots, I suspect most of us, then invest in winter/all season tyres use them November to March. This evens out the wear on each set, keeps you safer and could last you 3 years or more without buying any more tyres. I've been doing this for years on my rwd BMWs and it costs about £50 twice a year to swop them over. Rather invest upfront on this than change the exhaust, but if you can afford both then happy days.

 

[HoosierDaddy]

Any high power RWD car with summer tyres will yield the same result.

Its not just high powered cars. Turning and stopping grip are reduced by the same amount. Stopping and cornering more evenly share the load between the 4 tires. FWD or RWD cars accelerate with just two of the tires and so traction is lost at just one end. If that end is at the back of the car, a spin is more likely.

I can't see how so many people are getting bent out of shape over winter and summer tyres.

Is it the people or the cars that are getting bent out of shape?

 

[rusgb]

Sorry to wade in on p.6 of this thread, but my 2 cents:
When I had winter tyres on my car (with the ice mark - legal requirement for winter driving in Germany) it was great in the colder conditions and maybe marginally better in the rain (my understanding would be that clearing water, i.e. tread pattern is not a differentiator between summer and winter tyres, it is the grip in colder conditions). However, when it came to the summer and I kept the winter tyres on you could almost hear the tread melting onto the road. They are made of much softer rubber so they remain pliable in the colder weather, which means in the summer heat they become like jelly and the wear is very rapid. They were considerably nosier and certainly made the car feel less agile. I would not keep them on year round in the future.

Now, for a Mustang we want to be able to extract the best performance, so for me that means having a set of excellent summer tyres, driving sensibly in wet, cold or icy conditions and then wringing the sh*t out of it on a warm, dry summers day. My second car is a Discovery, so that is used on the bad winter days. If wifey was out in that then I would just drive carefully in the Stang. If I was covering many miles and/or driving in Europe I would have a winter set to use for the worst three months.

 

[Centurion07]

My second car is a Discovery, so that is used on the bad winter days.

So your solution is to buy a RR to use in the winter? :lol:

;)

 

[tooley]

Might be keeping the Quattro for snow days at this rate :headbonk:

 

[Manders Mustang]

Might be keeping the Quattro for snow days at this rate :headbonk:

But does that go sidewards and give you oodles of adrenaline fueled fun?

 

[Big_G]

Probably more pigheadedness than greed since the summer only cost MORE than the all season P-Zeros. So Ford would make money if they offered all seasons at the same price. Or do like with other options that cost them nothing (different gear ratios, wheel paint color) and charge more.

In the US, the summer onlys are part of an extra cost package, so nobody has to get them on their car. But its normal for owners in cold areas that buy that option to put different tires on when its colder.

Not good if Ford is forcing ALL UK buyers who use the car for daily transportation to do the same. I suspect in the US, Ford could not get away with offering summer only tires only. If they tried, as soon as a few people got into accidents they would likely be forced to offer all season tires.

I couldn't find any tire info in the UK brochure or configure tool.

I'm curious if Ford warns UK buyers they shouldn't drive their new cars when the temps are below the recommended temperature for those tires. Or do dealers regularly push installing all seasons before the owner takes delivery?

The line from Ford was "All of our standard vehicle range are fitted with Summer tyres, you can of course choose to buy alternative tyres which your dealership will be able to give you a cost for".

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