other things to also install when installing camber plates?

[Michael_vroomvroom]

I have Vorshlag camber plates that I'm going to be installing once I can set aside enough days for it (I work slooow). Since I'm thinking this will be quite of an ordeal for me skill-wise, I'm wondering if somebody has recommendations for something else that's not expensive and that I should "definitely" do at at the same time?

I track my car about once every two-three months now, but I'm still a novice, so only asking for things that would normally be quite a bit of work, but easy to do now due to dismantling things to install the camber plates. If there are any such things.

I have magneride on my car and I'm thinking hard about also ordering the magneride kit from FP so I can install it at the same time (even though it's not cheap at all, and at my novice level I don't think I should spend that much money. I just don't want to have to dismantle the suspension again if I want to install the set in a year or two), but worried about it lowering the car so much (20 mm I read), so not sure about that at all.
I checked under front fender where I usually park in the city, and I can barely get one finger in between the fender and the curb, so I will have to start parking in a much less convenient way if I lower my car like that, and perhaps try to get one of those third-party hacks for adding a front camera to the sync screen too.

Any recommendations for other other things?

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[NightmareMoon]

I mean, springs or shocks are the main things you'd want to do in the same time. Since you have magnaride shocks and are reluctant to lower the car, you're fine. Any lowering at all and those parking curbs quickly become splitter destroyers, but 20mm / 0.75" is a really good spot to be IF you're lowering at all. If you're swapping springs and lowering that much, there are a couple other parts you'd do at the same time.

What's the reason for the camber plates? Looking for more or less camber?

 

[Michael_vroomvroom]

I mean, springs or shocks are the main things you'd want to do in the same time. Since you have magnaride shocks and are reluctant to lower the car, you're fine. Any lowering at all and those parking curbs quickly become splitter destroyers, but 20mm / 0.75" is a really good spot to be IF you're lowering at all. If you're swapping springs and lowering that much, there are a couple other parts you'd do at the same time.

What's the reason for the camber plates? Looking for more or less camber?

Thanks. If I were to swap springs, what are some others things I'd do at the same time?

I want to add negative camber because I'm wearing out the sidewall on my tires, while the rest of the tire is still relatively fine. I see there is some limited adjustability without camber plates also, but I want to get a set of dedicated 19x11 wheels too, for which I belive the stock adjustability range is not enough and camber plates will be required anyway. It also seems that the Vorshlag camber plates will allow me to fairly easy adjust between a "track day" setting and a daily driving setting myself, once I've had them both aligned once, which I can't otherwise do myself.

 

[Roadway 5.0]

In your specific case, try a front adjustable sway bar.

 

[NightmareMoon]

Thanks. If I were to swap springs, what are some others things I'd do at the same time?

I want to add negative camber because I'm wearing out the sidewall on my tires, while the rest of the tire is still relatively fine. I see there is some limited adjustability without camber plates also, but I want to get a set of dedicated 19x11 wheels too, for which I belive the stock adjustability range is not enough and camber plates will be required anyway. It also seems that the Vorshlag camber plates will allow me to fairly easy adjust between a "track day" setting and a daily driving setting myself, once I've had them both aligned once, which I can't otherwise do myself.

Driving hard enough to get shoulder wear and looking at 19x11 w/ 305s. I love it.

If you lower the car 3/4" (or more), then the Steeda geometry correcting control arms and bumpsteer package are a great thing to do at that time. The former requires the latter, but it keeps your car steering just as well as a stock height car after the lowering. Lowering starts to change the suspension geometry, and lower it enough and it negatively affects the steering feel. These parts fix that.

If you're serious about adding more camber, the Vorshlag jig to open up your strut tower brace holes (~$50 + provide your own hole saw) will allow you to get > 3 degrees. IN my experience, shoulder wear issues are greatly diminished with ~2.7 degrees of camber, but not entirely eliminated. I'm trying 3.2 now, but that's past what the stock strut tower holes allow. You can definitely open those holes up later, but the struts need to be out of the way to do it.

 

[Norm Peterson]

I want to add negative camber because I'm wearing out the sidewall on my tires, while the rest of the tire is still relatively fine. I see there is some limited adjustability without camber plates also, but I want to get a set of dedicated 19x11 wheels too, for which I belive the stock adjustability range is not enough and camber plates will be required anyway. It also seems that the Vorshlag camber plates will allow me to fairly easy adjust between a "track day" setting and a daily driving setting myself, once I've had them both aligned once, which I can't otherwise do myself.

Actually, it's not that difficult to make front alignment measurements and settings yourself. It's the rear where access to the adjustments is more difficult and there is much greater crosstalk between toe and camber adjustments where the problems really lie.

Even with camber plates, there's probably a way to raise the ride height slightly - say 5 or 6 mm. Maybe more with a bit more work on your part.


Norm

 

[kz]

Just for reference - on my Magneride car with Steeda camber plates I am at -3.3 camber and still have space to move top of the struts out without cutting towers. No idea why.

Replacing springs is really the only thing that makes sense since you're removing strut mounts regardless. Everything else can make sense (like replacing front bar will be slightly easier with struts out of the way) but not because you're doing camber plates.
I typically looks at suspension mods from a perspective of what will require an alignment afterwards and try to group them - good alignment isn't cheap and with aftermarket adjustments you also will have to find someone willing to do it.

Key question is - what camber / toe are you shooting for ? If you're wearing outer shoulders now (hopefully not sidewalls), with significant negative camber and some toe out you'll be wearing out inner shoulder on the street daily driving the vehicle - at much faster pace than outer shoulder on track unless you're there frequently and drive hard.

If you do Magneride handling pack (or install a stiffer front bar in general), get stronger sway bar links - stock one will get bent quickly.

 

[GT 550]

Since I'm thinking this will be quite of an ordeal for me skill-wise, I'm wondering if somebody has recommendations for something else that's not expensive and that I should "definitely" do at at the same time?

I just don't want to have to dismantle the suspension again if I want to install the set in a year or two), but worried about it lowering the car so much (20 mm I read), so not sure about that at all.

Looks like a definite - and challenging - decision point depending on how dead against redoing it in 1-2 years you really are.

IMHO you probably need to decide whether daily duties or track work is more important and be guided accordingly ie manage expectations. For example it's pretty inevitable that you'll curb the splitter at some stage after it's lowered unless you get the camera installed, and upgraded springs will make the ride harsher (road surface dependent of course). On the other hand you could get frustrated at the track and will be possessed to upgrade anyway. Once you start the modification chain it usually keeps going eg you fix the front camber issue and then you're going faster so other deficiencies are revealed and then you fix them etc. It's one of those classic compromise situations.

Also don't take this the wrong way but outer edge wear can be caused by poor alignment and/or cornering technique ie inducing excessive understeer or not trail braking (if every corner produces a long agonised howling noise from the fronts it could be technique).

 

[kz]

OP - Btw - one though since I've recently done struts on the truck - if you don't have sockets for strut mount nut or an impact wrench, I suggest you get some.... (shaft spins when torqueing the nut, nut is under the mount so have to use a socket and there is no way to hold the shaft if you're using a socket...)

 

[Michael_vroomvroom]

Key question is - what camber / toe are you shooting for ? If you're wearing outer shoulders now (hopefully not sidewalls), with significant negative camber and some toe out you'll be wearing out inner shoulder on the street daily driving the vehicle - at much faster pace than outer shoulder on track unless you're there frequently and drive hard.

If you do Magneride handling pack (or install a stiffer front bar in general), get stronger sway bar links - stock one will get bent quickly.

I have had this recommended from a friendly guy at TMO, who I think got the recommendation from an engineering friend of his at Ford:

Front alignment
2.1 degrees of negative camber
1/16 of an inch toe

Rear alignment
1.25 degrees of negative camber
1/8 of an inch toe, minimum

Sounds like that may be too little according to some here, but thinking I'll try that first.

One of the reasons I went with the Vorshlag plates, apart from everyone seemingly happy with the quality, is I read they make it fairly easy and quick to adjust between two settings yourself (e..g, track and daily driving), so maybe it's something I can even do at the track when I arrive there.

 

[Michael_vroomvroom]

Also don't take this the wrong way but outer edge wear can be caused by poor alignment and/or cornering technique ie inducing excessive understeer or not trail braking (if every corner produces a long agonised howling noise from the fronts it could be technique).

Thanks. It's possible, but I did not see any issues with the tires until I started tracking it, and even then it was only after my second trackday I noticed it, so I'm guessing the stock alignment i got is an ok "daily driving" alignment.

Other issue you mention is also possible, and I wouldn't really know how to tell, but I don't hear any noise like that during cornering.

On a trackday last month a friendly guy offered to ride with me in the passenger seat for a few laps (friend of a fellow Mustang owner I met here, who's driving a supercharged 2016 GT350R. Man, that's a dream machine.). Not exactly sure what his background is, but seemed very competent and has apparently been racing around the world for many years. He taught me quite a bit of basic positioning stuff related to entering and exiting. I'm hoping if I were doing something very bad for my tires he'd tell me about that too.
That's coincidentally also the trackday I started trail braking, based on a book I've been reading the last couple of months (ultimate speed secrets by Ross Bentley).

 

[Michael_vroomvroom]

Driving hard enough to get shoulder wear and looking at 19x11 w/ 305s. I love it.

If you lower the car 3/4" (or more), then the Steeda geometry correcting control arms and bumpsteer package are a great thing to do at that time. The former requires the latter, but it keeps your car steering just as well as a stock height car after the lowering. Lowering starts to change the suspension geometry, and lower it enough and it negatively affects the steering feel. These parts fix that.

If you're serious about adding more camber, the Vorshlag jig to open up your strut tower brace holes (~$50 + provide your own hole saw) will allow you to get > 3 degrees. IN my experience, shoulder wear issues are greatly diminished with ~2.7 degrees of camber, but not entirely eliminated. I'm trying 3.2 now, but that's past what the stock strut tower holes allow. You can definitely open those holes up later, but the struts need to be out of the way to do it.

Thank you. I've seen the Vorshlag thing for opening up things further too. Will see how I get on without it first. Thanks for mentioning the control arms and bumpsteer package too. Will read more about that if I decide to install the magneride kit.

 

[kz]

I have had this recommended from a friendly guy at TMO, who I think got the recommendation from an engineering friend of his at Ford:

Front alignment
2.1 degrees of negative camber
1/16 of an inch toe

Rear alignment
1.25 degrees of negative camber
1/8 of an inch toe, minimum

Sounds like that may be too little according to some here, but thinking I'll try that first.

One of the reasons I went with the Vorshlag plates, apart from everyone seemingly happy with the quality, is I read they make it fairly easy and quick to adjust between two settings yourself (e..g, track and daily driving), so maybe it's something I can even do at the track when I arrive there.

For a serious track it's probably not enough but for happy medium between street and track those are reasonable alignment specs. No need to cut towers with -2.1 deg.

 

[VictorH]

Agree, my data is from GT350 but with Cup2 you'll need a bit more negative camber. However, and this is the big BUT, I would NOT go for a "happy compromise." It's not hard to adjust the toe particularly once the tie rod ends are marked (I used some really good wheel weight tape, just a thin strip on both sides the upright side and the tie rod side). My suggestion.
Plan for your track set up with the amount of neg camber you need, adjust toe for just slightly toe OUT, mark tie rod end there. Then move the camber to street setting (super easy with your camber plates), adjust to factory toe setting and mark the tie rod ends and you're done.
Just remember, and if you look at the front upright it will make sense, but adding a bunch of negative camber creates big TOE-OUT so you need to set toe back IN and when you set camber in, i.e. less negative you need to ADD TOE-OUT.

 

[Michael_vroomvroom]

For a serious track it's probably not enough but for happy medium between street and track those are reasonable alignment specs. No need to cut towers with -2.1 deg.

Ah, yes, that was what the intent was I belive. A happy medium without having to realign between street and track, but if realigning with these camber plates does not take too much time, I'm guessing I don't have to compromise.

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