Operating temp takes a long time

[Daryl333]

Have searched and not found an answer.
17 GT
JLT CAI, ARH catted longtubes.
My engine takes like 10 mins or more to warm up. Fans, heater AC works as it should. I've never timed it and it might be as long as 15. Tuner says there's nothing he can change.
I'm going FI and will be installing lower temp T-stat and plugs. Will this make it worse?
Better?
Should I be concerned about the long warm up time?

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[silverbullet85]

That is usually a sign that the thermostat has failed in the open position, it does that so you won't overheat but it will take forever to get up to temp. If you're changing the thermostat anyways then yes it should fix it

 

[Daryl333]

That is usually a sign that the thermostat has failed in the open position, it does that so you won't overheat but it will take forever to get up to temp. If you're changing the thermostat anyways then yes it should fix it

I guess I'll see in a week or so.
Thx.

 

[KingKona]

That is usually a sign that the thermostat has failed in the open position.....

Not necessarily. It's possible, but doubtful.

Taking 10 minutes to warm-up when it's cold outside is completely normal and standard for Ford in general, and the Mustang in specific. And if you have PP1 or PP2, may God have mercy on your soul.

There is nothing to be concerned about, it's just a PITA in the winter. Ford over-engineers their cooling systems, so they take a loooooong time to get up to temperature when it's cold.

Please don't live in San Diego and try and tell people who actually experience winter temps about starting a car in the cold.

 

[Angrey]

Firstly, there is no ECT sensor. There's only a cylinder head temp sensor and the car uses logic and tables to "infer" what the coolant temp is. The thermostat operates mechanically off a set temperature, but as far as what the computer is seeing, it uses time and cylinder head temps to infer what the coolant temp is. Interestingly, the CHT sensor has 2 sensors (a high and low) because it can't accurately cover the entire range with one so it creates some unique conditions where the car gets confused as to whether it's on the high or low side (but that's a different discussion).

The OE tune sets the idle high until it reads 120F for ECT (inferred) then it settles down to the lower idle.

I would recommend you focus more/most on CHT and EOT for the green light to operate the car. Those are what are most important to be acceptable before the motor climbs in RPM. I like the CHT to be near steady state and the oil to be sufficiently warm that it gets enough flow (and not overpressure) before I move the car, but sometimes I'll limp the car out of the neighborhood and keep the rpm's below 2k so I don't antagonize my neighbors (especially if it's really early/late). That helps to warm the car quicker and doesn't pose a big lubrication risk to the motor or abuse the pistons before they've had a chance to fully warm/expand inside the cylinders.

Once the oil is sufficiently warm enough to give adequate flow, the only other concern is maintaining it TOO low for extended periods. Despite common myth, you can actually run the car TOO cool. The oil temp actually NEEDS to be high from time to time in order to cook off lightweight contaminants that cut it and lower it's overall weight. This is especially true when running E85.

 

[KingKona]

Firstly, there is no ECT sensor........

I'm pretty sure the OP is asking why coolant temps take so long to get in the green.

Almost certain.

 

[Angrey]

I'm pretty sure the OP is asking why coolant temps take so long to get in the green.

Almost certain.

Yup. And my point is, that guage is inferred. There is no sensor that measures the temperature of the coolant. It measures the CHT and then does a calculation of what it THINKS the ECT is based on time, CHT and other inputs.

The ECT is largely a useless number outside of ensuring that it doesn't exceed boiling point or pressure over 1.45 bar and purge. It's the CHT and the EOT that are most appropriate to monitor.

 

[KingKona]

Yup. And my point is, that guage is inferred. There is no sensor that measures the temperature of the coolant. It measures the CHT and then does a calculation of what it THINKS the ECT is based on time, CHT and other inputs.

The ECT is largely a useless number outside of ensuring that it doesn't exceed boiling point or pressure over 1.45 bar and purge. It's the CHT and the EOT that are most appropriate to monitor.

The OP didn't ask about any of that.

The OP is asking why it takes so long to get heat in the car. Something I don't think you have any experience with, which is why you're not understanding the OP's question.

 

[Angrey]

The OP didn't ask about any of that.

The OP is asking why it takes so long to get heat in the car. Something I don't think you have any experience with, which is why you're not understanding the OP's question.

The OP is asking about why it takes so long for the ECT's to get up to temp. He said nothing about not having heat in the car. In fact he mentions that it works just fine. He's asking because he's concerned about it being lengthy and what impacts it will have if he changes nothing before going boosted.

I'm not really concerned about what you think or don't think about my experience. I'm trying to steer him away from concerning himself with ECT or it's ramp rate and move toward watching CHT and EOT, which is what matters more.

 

[KingKona]

The OP is asking about why it takes so long for the ECT's to get up to temp. He said nothing about not having heat in the car.

They're the same thing. Exactly the same thing.

He's asking why it take 10-15 minutes for his car to get up to temperature, and you're trying to educate with semantics about ECTs, ramp rates, CHTs and EOTs.

He's not asking what he should watch, he's asking why it takes so damn long for the car to get up to operating temperatures.

 

[Angrey]

I'm pretty sure he means heat in the car. And yes, he mentions that the heat does work, but his complaint is that it takes a long time to eventually happen.

Being from the south, you don't understand sitting in a 0 degree car waiting for the damn thing to get heat in it.

The OP never asked about ECT, it's ramp rate, CHTs or EOTs. He asked why it "takes like 10 mins or more to warm up".

I feel like we've covered this ground already. I'm going to go out on a limb and say it's you that doesn't understand his question. He's not bitching about cold hands or asses. He's asking if he should be concerned before he throws boost at his car and why it takes so long to get up to temp. My point to him is, and stay with me here Jimbo, IT DOESN'T MATTER what the ECT is. The car could run at 100F ECT or 230 ECT. Doesn't matter (in terms of moving the car). What matters is that the CHT's are sufficient to not damage anything (which is much less if he has stock or hypereutectic pistons that expand less than forged) and the Engine oil temp is sufficiently warm to provide proper flow and lubrication. If both of those (and really for him, EOT mainly) are good, it's time to drive. The ECT has only an INDIRECT effect.

If we were talking about monitoring ECT's around track/lap sessions, we'd be having a different discussion. But again, even then, it's indirect, as ECT's are indicative of how well the car is moving heat out and away from the motor and it's still keeping CHT's in check that's the goal.

In terms of having the car ready and safe to use/drive. ECT has zero direct concern. It's the cylinder head temps and the oil that matter. The car and motor don't give one shit whether it's 100F or near boiling as long as the other two are proper.

 

[Angrey]

And I grew up in the cold. If warming the vehicle fast is truly a concern, simply create a cardboard template that you can place in front of the radiator and remove before you drive. Works like a charm in severe cold.

 

[KingKona]

I feel like we've covered this ground already. I'm going to go out on a limb and say it's you that doesn't understand his question. He's not bitching about cold hands or asses. He's asking if he should be concerned before he throws boost at his car and why it takes so long to get up to temp. My point to him is, and stay with me here Jimbo, IT DOESN'T MATTER what the ECT is. The car could run at 100F ECT or 230 ECT. Doesn't matter (in terms of moving the car). What matters is that the CHT's are sufficient to not damage anything (which is much less if he has stock or hypereutectic pistons that expand less than forged) and the Engine oil temp is sufficiently warm to provide proper flow and lubrication. If both of those (and really for him, EOT mainly) are good, it's time to drive. The ECT has only an INDIRECT effect.

If we were talking about monitoring ECT's around track/lap sessions, we'd be having a different discussion. But again, even then, it's indirect, as ECT's are indicative of how well the car is moving heat out and away from the motor and it's still keeping CHT's in check that's the goal.

In terms of having the car ready and safe to use/drive. ECT has zero direct concern. It's the cylinder head temps and the oil that matter. The car and motor don't give one shit whether it's 100F or near boiling as long as the other two are proper.

Look.....you need to understand that in the North, when it's 0 degrees outside, knowing that your car's coolant and oil is up to proper operating temps is key before you start beating on the engine. And getting heat in the car is a major indicator that the car is getting warmed up, and is on it's way to proper operating temps.

The OP is simply asking why it takes so damn long. He's wondering if something is wrong with his car, because it takes so long to warm up.

 

[Slopoke]

The OP didn't say that this is a change from what he is used to seeing, or something that he has just now observed. He didn't state what his outside temps were during this observation.

I know for me, that when outside temps are in the 40s. Going from my home to the freeway on ramp is a mile and I have to drive a few miles on the freeway to get the coolant temp indicator into the green.

 

[KingKona]

And I grew up in the cold. If warming the vehicle fast is truly a concern, simply create a cardboard template that you can place in front of the radiator and remove before you drive. Works like a charm in severe cold.

My IQ dropped 18 points just reading this.

This right here tells me you're lying. You've never lived where it get's cold. You're completely and utterly incorrect.

Putting a piece of cardboard in front of the radiator of a parked car isn't going to warm a car up any faster. You simply don't know what you're talking about.

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