On-Track Limp Mode Poll

[zombiekiller]

He was also doing something most people wouldn't do for his test. I would like to know what the temperatures were running at 70 mph in 6th gear, which would be a more normal load.

the point being, although airflow cooling logistics would be different at a higher speed ( maybe, based on the fact that air actually routes away from the trans due to the belly design) , that 70 mph at under 4,000rpm bumped the trans temp more than 40 degrees.

I'd venture a guess that jamming at 160+ in the car in 6th gear for a semi-extended period of time on the autobahn would add heat faster and thus, more than likely, would quickly get you into what I'd consider a trans temp danger zone.

I get that the limp mode triggers between 276 and 280 degrees. The rate at which the tech and base trans heats, as well as the temps that it heats to, concern me.

It seems that even during nominal, every day driving, the temperate delta between the two different transmissions is REALLY big.

I'm not saying the sky is falling, or the car wont continue to operate. It is merely a data point.

I also have no clue as to if the trans temp stabilizes, or at what speed. It my minimal test, regardless of what I did, the trans temp steadily rose.

I tested it today again, with keeping an eye on the temp in 6th gear. the temp went to 194 degrees. so 5.7 degrees cooler.

again, posting this as a data point and nothing more. Am I hypothesizing about high speed runs and their impact on temp? absolutely.

Am i going to attempt jamming down the highway, higher than the posted speed limit for an extended period of time? abso-freaking-lutely not.

I also do not have access to any private stretch of asphalt where i could test sustained high speed. My local track requires lots of turning, braking, etc.

:cheers:

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[Caballus]

the point being, although airflow cooling logistics would be different at a higher speed ( maybe, based on the fact that air actually routes away from the trans due to the belly design) , that 70 mph at under 4,000rpm bumped the trans temp more than 40 degrees.

I'd venture a guess that jamming at 160+ in the car in 6th gear for a semi-extended period of time on the autobahn would add heat faster and thus, more than likely, would quickly get you into what I'd consider a trans temp danger zone.

I get that the limp mode triggers between 276 and 280 degrees. The rate at which the tech and base trans heats, as well as the temps that it heats to, concern me.

It seems that even during nominal, every day driving, the temperate delta between the two different transmissions is REALLY big.

I'm not saying the sky is falling, or the car wont continue to operate. It is merely a data point.

I also have no clue as to if the trans temp stabilizes, or at what speed. It my minimal test, regardless of what I did, the trans temp steadily rose.

I tested it today again, with keeping an eye on the temp in 6th gear. the temp went to 194 degrees. so 5.7 degrees cooler.

again, posting this as a data point and nothing more. Am I hypothesizing about high speed runs and their impact on temp? absolutely.

Am i going to attempt jamming down the highway, higher than the posted speed limit for an extended period of time? abso-freaking-lutely not.

I also do not have access to any private stretch of asphalt where i could test sustained high speed. My local track requires lots of turning, braking, etc.

:cheers:

How much did your n gauge run?

 

[FastCarFanBoy]

you cant compare the fluid temps of an automatic transmission to a manual. saying 280 is ludicrously hot when the MT82 has been tracked at that temp and higher for years is interesting

 

[zombiekiller]

you cant compare the fluid temps of an automatic transmission to a manual. saying 280 is ludicrously hot when the MT82 has been tracked at that temp and higher for years is interesting

just because it can be done, doesn't mean it should be done.

The fluid dynamics are VASTLY different between what seems to be Ford's target fluid temp of 165ish in a track pack car and 200 + degrees in a tech/base car.

That is what i am struggling with. All things being equal, as i understand it, the only difference in the two transmissions is the addition of the pump and supporting plumbing for said pump.

My question is, how is the expected longevity anywhere close to the same from track/r trans to tech/base trans when the lubrication properties and fluid dynamics between the two target operating ranges is so different?

Notice that I'm not trying to pick an argument, merely have a discussion.

maybe someone smarter than me can explain it to me.

I don't understand how the wear characteristics could be anywhere close when comparing the two temperature ranges.

All things considered, lets take "performance and track" driving out of the entire equation.

I'd be COMPLETELY satisfied if the normal street driving, common operating temperature was withing say, 20 degrees of one another. I don't think that 20 degrees makes much of a difference when examining bearing or gear wear over the lifetime of a car.

BUT, i'm seeing 30+ degree difference when i test for less than 15 minutes. (i fully plan to log a 2.5 hour drive as soon as i can to see what the "normal driving" peak and sustained temps get to).

From a pure material wear perspective, I'm baffled that the operating Temp range is that much different between the two transmissions under normal street driving conditions.

If say, the trans fluid temps were similar under normal driving conditions, and the big temp difference ( 25+ degrees of spread) only happened during performance oriented driving conditions, i would not be confused at all.

I've never experienced running a manual transmission at that high of a temp during normal operation.

I have a tremec t56 magnum xl in my galaxie, behind a coyote with a boss intake on it. Its not by any stretch of the imagination a heavily tuned or modified motor. during normal street driving, it sits at 150-160 degrees, almost like a pacemaker. The temp may fluctuate by a couple degrees (10-15) if i boot it, but it doesn't come close to the temps that the gt350 is hitting while babying it.

I do not have a cooler on the t56. I do have a temp gauge on it. The gauge does read accurately. For reference, my galaxie has about 550 less Lbs that it is dragging around than the gt350. it is probably down about 85-90HP when compared to the gt350.

So yeah, If one of y'all can explain this all to me, It would be much appreciated.

It is confusing to me that the Tech/Base gt350s transmission runs so hot and that it is designed to do so, especially considering the optimal temp range for the track pack/R transmission as designed by ford, is so much lower, when essentially, they are identical.

Is there a fluid difference?

Does the Fluid used in both retain the same lubrication and wear prevention characteristics across that wide of a temperature range?

Does it have some sort of viscosity stabilization additive that prevents more accelerated wear in higher temperature ranges?

Is it by design, or complete oversight?

Inquiring minds want to know.

 

[zombiekiller]

How much did your n gauge run?

I think it was just over $500. I got it directly from Lund. It comes with a tune, but i'm not anywhere close to having the parts that I'd like to install before i work with them on tuning.

I wanted to get it now in order to observe trans temps and log before and after coolers. it doesnt really make sense to me to add more HP, thus generating more heat, until there is a trans and differential cooling solution that I can install. All i feel like it will do is bring the onset of limp mode on faster, fully compounded by the fact that its already 80 degrees on a daily basis here.

If was 60 degrees when i went to the track and made it 15 mins before limp mode.

I like the gauge and it is doing what i want it to do.

 

[Caballus]

I think it was just over $500. I got it directly from Lund. It comes with a tune, but i'm not anywhere close to having the parts that I'd like to install before i work with them on tuning.

I wanted to get it now in order to observe trans temps and log before and after coolers. it doesnt really make sense to me to add more HP, thus generating more heat, until there is a trans and differential cooling solution that I can install. All i feel like it will do is bring the onset of limp mode on faster, fully compounded by the fact that its already 80 degrees on a daily basis here.

If was 60 degrees when i went to the track and made it 15 mins before limp mode.

I like the gauge and it is doing what i want it to do.

Thanks. All makes sense.

Like you, no desire to add HP, not only because it generates more heat, but also because I am happy with 526HP as long as it works as advertised.

When driving normally in unrestricted areas on the Autobahn, I average 160-180 kph (100-110mph) on any road trip, just as I average 70mph in the States. If driving a really solid car on summer tires (Audi A5 or A6, 3 Series, or good C-Class--all typical rentals), I'll sustain 220 (136mph). When driving on the weekends or at night, when trucks aren't allowed, that's pretty easy and quite normal, and overheating has honestly never crossed my mind. The cars will handle more, but for me that's when it becomes high adventure. I've found that sustaining speeds higher than that for more than 30 minutes or so becomes extremely nerve racking, even with no traffic, because you are focused so far down the road and your complete concentration is on driving. You can't relax even for a second.

So, after the recommended break in, which I plan to follow religiously, that is the test the car will be put to. I'll reserve judgement until that's been done.

 

[svttim]

We ran sustained speeds 80 and 100 for a 50 or so mile stretch and I never had any issues. I cant read the temp though

 

[stanglife]

Has this been posted?
[ame]

This seems pretty old - I wonder if dealers had this for a while and didn't watch/understand and didn't pass the information on to customers?

I say it seems old because at the time of the video, the engine oil cooler didn't come with the base or tech.

 

[Spa2k]

This was sent to dealers prior to their being able to order GT 350s. It's posted elsewhere here - was on the M6G home page a while ago.

 

[superman07]

I can confirm sustained 110 mph for 1-2 hours did not raise my temps. But it was quite cool and I was flying through Kentucky. Probably about 40 ambient. I stopped once to piss. N guage was pretty steady at 160-180 degrees if i remember right.

 

[montreal ponies]

I can confirm sustained 110 mph for 1-2 hours did not raise my temps. But it was quite cool and I was flying through Kentucky. Probably about 40 ambient. I stopped once to piss. N guage was pretty steady at 160-180 degrees if i remember right.

Euh say what ! You sustained speeds of up to 110mph for 1-2 hours ? Care to elaborate please. :eyebulge:

 

[barstowpo]

Kentucky is a state in Mexico right? Certainly couldn't get away with this in the states?

 

[superman07]

Knoxville to Cincinnati. only needed to slow at Lexington.

 

[Mach70]

Is that a non Track Pack that sustained 110 and no transmission heat problems?

 

[Zitrosounds]

Is that a non Track Pack that sustained 110 and no transmission heat problems?

I think it is a tech or base model. You will have to read through the Forum to figure it out. However I replicated a similar drive and I own a track pack. I drove 50 some-odd miles in about an hour Animax top speed of 120 and averaging about a hundred miles an hour. I live in northern Alabama and on that day it was 70 degrees on my drive home from work. My transmission temp what's 113 on average with a Max of 119

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