On-Track Limp Mode Poll

[krt22]

A lot of good info in this thread. Not just the OP, but some of the replies as well.

http://trackmustangsonline.com/index.php?topic=8132.0

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[zombiekiller]

A lot of good info in this thread. Not just the OP, but some of the replies as well.

http://trackmustangsonline.com/index.php?topic=8132.0

yep. I saw that one. I'm hoping that the differential temps that those guys are seeing is not what we'll be seeing in the gt350s. it is a little scary.

Any of the track pack owners that have noticed differential temps care to comment? I'd love to know what the target should be for temps with a aftermarket cooler setup.

 

[arsenalrocks]

the factory tranny cooler can't be that bad tho. R/Track had been running all day long. I would prefer the OEM cooler simply b/c we know it would fit without issues.

but of course the most important thing is having a pump with a high enough flow rate to cycle those fluids non stop.

After talking to the aftermarket company (waiting for a call back), their initial thoughts on using the factory hard parts is this: Nope!

Apparently they feel that the cooler is a bit undersized and that the airflow to it is not as good as they'd like.

I've offered to be an alpha tester for them and to offer fiscal support to get the project going.

i will also say that they have not committed to doing the project yet, but do not be surprised if I post up asking for some additional testers/buyers to help get this solution going.

When i get information, i'll share it.

 

[zombiekiller]

the factory tranny cooler can't be that bad tho. R/Track had been running all day long. I would prefer the OEM cooler simply b/c we know it would fit without issues.

but of course the most important thing is having a pump with a high enough flow rate to cycle those fluids non stop.

I have not been able to confirm or deny that the gears in the track/R trans are REM finished. REM finishing can also really decrease the temps. If they are REM finished, the tech/base gears are certainly not. We may need to overcome the benefit that the REM finishing provides with extra cooling.


the tilton pumps are undergunned after doing a bunch of research. it needs to be able to run continuous duty @ 3GPM to maintain nice, cool temperatures in the transmission. tilton pumps( even continuous duty models) are 2GPM Max.

I'd also assume that the differential cooler will need to do the same. I'm also wondering if additional fluid volume on the differential would have a dramatic impact. The differential isnt that big, so i'm also thinking that flow rate will hit a point of declining benefit somewhere in the equation ( I have not sat down to do the math.)

 

[arsenalrocks]

initially, I was very worried about my tech pack being completely useless on the track going to limp mode after 10mins just like any other tech/base cars.

but then I calm down a little bit and think about the situation as a whole: get the tranny cooler, run two hoses, and run an external pump wired to the battery. total cost of that is no more than 1000. the switch can be manual, only turn on during the track days. why even bother with the wiring of the temp sensor at all? kinda pointless.

in terms of warranty, ford says you should run aftermarket cooler, so that is what I may do. if i go aftermarket, the simpler the better to be honest. I won't want to mess with the wiring.

so I am in a much better place now, I know the pump will come, the hoses will come, whether from aftermarket or ford, this limp mode issue will be a non-issue once all that stuff comes together.

yeah. the tilton pumps are undergunned after doing a bunch of research. it needs to be able to run continuous duty @ 3GPM to maintain nice, cool temperatures in the transmission. I'd also assume that the differential cooler will need to do the same. I'm also wondering if additional fluid volume on the differential would have a dramatic impact. The differential isnt that big, so i'm also thinking that flow rate will hit a point of declining benefit somewhere in the equation ( I have not sat down to do the math.)

 

[krt22]

Not to mention conversations when you give people rides will go like this

Friend: "dang cool car man, what is that little switch for?"
You: "that's the switch to turn on my tranny fluid pump"
Friend: "what the heck do you need that for?"
You: "because racecar"

 

[mattlqx]

yep. I saw that one. I'm hoping that the differential temps that those guys are seeing is not what we'll be seeing in the gt350s. it is a little scary.

Any of the track pack owners that have noticed differential temps care to comment? I'd love to know what the target should be for temps with a aftermarket cooler setup.

Apples-to-oranges, but I ran my Boss for at least 20 track hours. The diff got hot, fluid leaked out of the vent port on the axle. Fluid lost was minimal though after a handful of events. Never any metal in the fluid. Gears looked perfect when I opened it up right before I sold it. I'm sure it got hot, but as long as you maintained it, it shouldn't be an issue.

I've heard Track pack owners say diff temperatures stick around 160F. FWIW, the casing on my 350 gets up to 180ish F. Not sure what that means for fluid temps, but it seems like that's within "normal". I also don't notice any fluid or smell after track activity in my Tech pack.

 

[Caballus]

Thanks, ZK. No less disappointed in Ford, but certainly appreciative of your effort and info. Eager for a solution.

Alright, so.

This is completely unofficial. Take it for what it is worth. no one put me up to posting this. No one should misconstrue anyone as authoring the content other than myself.

1. I have verified that Ford Performance is working on a solution. This will NOT be a FREE solution. There is no ETA on when it will be available. There will be no conjecture as to what it includes.

2. FP is very clear on the fact that adding a cooler does not instantaneously void your warranty. If the part is shown to have caused a failure, then yes, you will be on the hook for a repair. If the cooler does not lead to a failure and there are not other extraneous circumstances, there is no reason to believe that you will not get the assistance that you need.

3. Threatening LEGAL action is the WORST thing that anyone could possibly do. IF a suit is brought about, Ford Mothership will INSTANTANEOUSLY FORBID ANYONE from Ford Performance from helping anyone or offering solutions/insight/feedback.

If you think this will help anyone. It won't.

One of the gents at FP recommended an aftermarket company that I should reach out to. I will speak with them this week to see if they are willing to put together a kit.

The ask is that everyone be a little reasonable about this. It sounds like it will not be a huge deal to put together a fully functional kit for the $1,000-$1500 range that does not require dropping the trans or permanently modifying it.

Let's not be restless natives attempting to burn Ford at the stake.

Furthermore, I also did some research with my dealer into doing the full trans swap with parts to retrofit the factory setups for Transmission and Differential. There are some challenges with the canbus and getting the sensors to work, programming to work and retrofitting the appropriate harnesses in conjunction with the tech pack stuff.

In short, it would be a complete science experiment and the cost is prohibitive, even if they agree to sell you the parts at cost.

So, the ask is... cool off, sit tight, let those of us that are willing to put the time in work with the aftermarket and Ford Performance to come up with a solution.


Thanks.

 

[montreal ponies]

Thanks, ZK. No less disappointed in Ford, but certainly appreciative of your effort and info. Eager for a solution.

I totally agree with above statement, thanks for the time and effort you're investing in this .

 

[zombiekiller]

Apples-to-oranges, but I ran my Boss for at least 20 track hours. The diff got hot, fluid leaked out of the vent port on the axle. Fluid lost was minimal though after a handful of events. Never any metal in the fluid. Gears looked perfect when I opened it up right before I sold it. I'm sure it got hot, but as long as you maintained it, it shouldn't be an issue.

I've heard Track pack owners say diff temperatures stick around 160F. FWIW, the casing on my 350 gets up to 180ish F. Not sure what that means for fluid temps, but it seems like that's within "normal". I also don't notice any fluid or smell after track activity in my Tech pack.

my thought process on it is this.. after the 15 or so minutes before limp mode, it may seen fine, but what happens when you do a full 20, pushing hard? I'm wondering if we'll then see differential temps that are uncomfortable?

pure conjecture, I know. I have to think the differential cooler is there in the Track pack and R cars to guard against something similar to the transmission heat challenge.

hopefully we'll get a trans cooling solution that gives us the ability to get that far. :-)

 

[mattlqx]

my thought process on it is this.. after the 15 or so minutes before limp mode, it may seen fine, but what happens when you do a full 20, pushing hard? I'm wondering if we'll then see differential temps that are uncomfortable?

pure conjecture, I know. I have to think the differential cooler is there in the Track pack and R cars to guard against something similar to the transmission heat challenge.

hopefully we'll get a trans cooling solution that gives us the ability to get that far. :-)

You're probably right. It's likely more of a problem closer to the 30 minute mark.

 

[krt22]

For those not following the 5-6 other threads.

http://trackmustangsonline.com/index.php?topic=10407.50

 

[TDC]

Thanks for the link. Makes me hopeful.
As a first time Ford purchaser I would feel much more committed to this company if they take these issues seriously and offer solutions; if at a reduced price all the better.

Companies make mistakes and it is how they address them that matters most.

 

[1320']

The point is..Ford is taking this seriously. They've made the coolers standard on all 2017 GT350's. That's what companies do, they make incremental improvements year over year.

They are working on solutions for the 2015/2016 cars without the coolers, it just takes time. Some people are whining and complaining that there hasn't been a huge broadcasted notification of "WE'RE WORKING ON THIS. WE'RE SO SORRY. WE'RE WRONG AND YOU HAVE NO PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY IN THE MATTER"

GM quietly added extra coolers to 2015/2016 C7's that were overheating on the tracks, they made them standard on the Camaro and kind of worked with C7 owners from before the fix. It's what companies do, not everything is a huge public gesture.

 

[zombiekiller]

I'd actually be psyched if they did the kit with factory parts and worked out the programming, plus offered it at a discounted price point.

Even though it was more expensive, i'd probably opt for that. My hope would be that they'd take the factory trans as a core, but, even if they didnt, i'd bet it would fetch a nice price used to offset the cost. Hell, I might keep it and put it in my other car that doesnt rev so high that will never see a track.

Thanks for the link.

I have not heard back from the 3rd party aftermarket company yet. I'm going to call them on friday if i dont hear from them before then.

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