On-Track Limp Mode Poll

[TSmith]

Hi Guys, I run a race shop (Pikes Peak Racing) in Colorado Springs. The owner of our shop has a GT350 that will be tracked and we are currently working on a transmission cooler. We haven't run it yet without it, but once it is finished we will data log track 'before' transmission fluid temperatures by blocking off the cooler and not running the pump. Then we will log the temps with the cooler active.
I will be sure and update once we have it completed. It would be a relatively simple task to put something like this together, but we are trying to make it completely reversible, without permanent modification. Hopefully, this will be complete in the next week or so.

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[Wblv17]

sounds like all need to file a complaint with the BBB

 

[markham51]

Thanks for the thread. Finally one that makes sense.

As a 65 year old GUY I have experienced limp mode myself on occasion, but never in a Mustang.

The TRACK version comes with extra coolers. Why do you think they put them there?

Perhaps because if you want to TRACK the car you will need them.

 

[icormba]

Thanks for the thread. Finally one that makes sense.

The TRACK version comes with extra coolers. Why do you think they put them there?

Perhaps because of you want to TRACK the car you will need them.

I assumed if I wanted to TRACK the car often, then it would be best to buy the track pack.

If I wanted to TRACK the car once in a while because it's my daily driver, then a Tech or Base would be fine.

Apparently, from what I'm reading in all these posts is that NO, you can not track a Tech or Base GT350 without adding coolers. Oh, by the way... Ford Performance now says they can't add those coolers. WTF??? :frusty:

Please note, my Ford manual, received 1/3/16, does not specify "aftermarket" coolers.

A lot of the Track pack folks are saying...
"You base/tech guys are morons thinking you can track your car, why didn't you buy the track pack? You are all idiots. Why are you all making this fuse? You are noobs and you should all stop criticizing Ford and have no right to be upset just because Ford decided to make all coolers standard on all models for 2017. By the way... you should have known they would do this and you should have waited for the 2017 model." :doh: :headbonk:

Come on guys, that's F-up'ed!! Early on guys on the fence asked what they should get... Track pack or Tech pack.
Many answered what do you want in the car?

Recaros? Get the Track pack
Sync3 / Heated/cooled seats? get the Tech pack... you can always add oil, trans, diff coolers later on.

Most didn't even know Oil coolers came with all options at the time.

 

[markham51]

I assumed if I wanted to TRACK the car often, then it would be best to buy the track pack.

If I wanted to TRACK the car once in a while because it's my daily driver, then a Tech or Base would be fine.

Apparently, from what I'm reading in all these posts is that NO, you can not track a Tech or Base GT350 without adding coolers. Oh, by the way... Ford Performance now says they can't add those coolers. WTF??? :frusty:

Please note, my Ford manual, received 1/3/16, does not specify "aftermarket" coolers.

A lot of the Track pack folks are saying...
"You base/tech guys are morons thinking you can track your car, why didn't you buy the track pack? You are all idiots. Why are you all making this fuse? You are noobs and you should all stop criticizing Ford and have no right to be upset just because Ford decided to make all coolers standard on all models for 2017. By the way... you should have known they would do this and you should have waited for the 2017 model." :doh: :headbonk:

Come on guys, that's F-up'ed!! Early on guys on the fence asked what they should get... Track pack or Tech pack.
Many answered what do you want in the car?

Recaros? Get the Track pack
Sync3 / Heated/cooled seats? get the Tech pack... you can always add oil, trans, diff coolers later on.

Most didn't even know Oil coolers came with all options at the time.

No doubt this is a learning experience for most of us since the GT350 has a ton of technology that all needs to come together in a precise way... whereas Mustangs in the past are more like a blank canvas inviting mods at every turn.

Hindsight is 20/20.

 

[mattlqx]

I'm here at Wild Horse Pass in Phoenix. I'll have a full report later on, but it's again 80F ambient and I have my cats off. I get approximately the same run time maybe a few minutes more, even without the cats now. About 15 minutes. Trans temps about 278F when I glanced at the gauge on limp. I'm doing some data logging with the nGauge. (Hopefully I do it right this time).

Bummer again, but it appears the cats themselves are not having that big of an impact on the trans temp. Shielding and/or airflow may still help some. That's the next step.

 

[FastCarFanBoy]

I assumed if I wanted to TRACK the car often, then it would be best to buy the track pack.

If I wanted to TRACK the car once in a while because it's my daily driver, then a Tech or Base would be fine.

Apparently, from what I'm reading in all these posts is that NO, you can not track a Tech or Base GT350 without adding coolers. Oh, by the way... Ford Performance now says they can't add those coolers. WTF??? :frusty:

Please note, my Ford manual, received 1/3/16, does not specify "aftermarket" coolers.

A lot of the Track pack folks are saying...
"You base/tech guys are morons thinking you can track your car, why didn't you buy the track pack? You are all idiots. Why are you all making this fuse? You are noobs and you should all stop criticizing Ford and have no right to be upset just because Ford decided to make all coolers standard on all models for 2017. By the way... you should have known they would do this and you should have waited for the 2017 model." :doh: :headbonk:

Come on guys, that's F-up'ed!! Early on guys on the fence asked what they should get... Track pack or Tech pack.
Many answered what do you want in the car?

Recaros? Get the Track pack
Sync3 / Heated/cooled seats? get the Tech pack... you can always add oil, trans, diff coolers later on.

Most didn't even know Oil coolers came with all options at the time.

you either need coolers to control temps and prevent damage ojn track or you dont , the frequency that you track the car means nothing. The notion that "because im only going to overheat my fluids twice a year I should be fine" was flawed logic unfortunately.

 

[zombiekiller]

I'm here at Wild Horse Pass in Phoenix. I'll have a full report later on, but it's again 80F ambient and I have my cats off. I get approximately the same run time maybe a few minutes more, even without the cats now. About 15 minutes. Trans temps about 278F when I glanced at the gauge on limp. I'm doing some data logging with the nGauge. (Hopefully I do it right this time).

Bummer again, but it appears the cats themselves are not having that big of an impact on the trans temp. Shielding and/or airflow may still help some. That's the next step.

Well that blows. the majority of the heat must be caused by the input cluster in the trans spinning so fast. If thats the case, it is cooler or bust.

woof.

 

[84venom]

I'm here at Wild Horse Pass in Phoenix. I'll have a full report later on, but it's again 80F ambient and I have my cats off. I get approximately the same run time maybe a few minutes more, even without the cats now. About 15 minutes. Trans temps about 278F when I glanced at the gauge on limp. I'm doing some data logging with the nGauge. (Hopefully I do it right this time).

Bummer again, but it appears the cats themselves are not having that big of an impact on the trans temp. Shielding and/or airflow may still help some. That's the next step.

Thanks for the update and USEFUL information. At least someone is using this thread as intended!!!! Keep us posted....

 

[mattlqx]

I've pulled some data. It's been challenging to figure out what was happening when as the datalogs on the nGauge only have relative timestamps in seconds from when you start logging. I've tried to correlate that with what's happening on video. I'm still working through specifics and I'm by no means an expert in what all the numbers mean, but... here's some graphs.

First one shows the whole third session I ran. Red line shows "limp" as best as I can tell. I really need to throw a hand signal to the camera when I first experience it, it'd make this a lot easier.

Second graph shows approximately 60 seconds after this event. Which I'm still going around track for and then pulling off at the very end. There's some throttle attempts in there, but mostly I'm short shifting to keep it under the lowered limit. (5k ish)

For comparison, I picked a random 60 second stretch from earlier in the session for the third graph. That's most of one lap.

 

[zombiekiller]

I've pulled some data. It's been challenging to figure out what was happening when as the datalogs on the nGauge only have relative timestamps in seconds from when you start logging. I've tried to correlate that with what's happening on video. I'm still working through specifics and I'm by no means an expert in what all the numbers mean, but... here's some graphs.

First one shows the whole third session I ran. Red line shows "limp" as best as I can tell. I really need to throw a hand signal to the camera when I first experience it, it'd make this a lot easier.

Second graph shows approximately 60 seconds after this event. Which I'm still going around track for and then pulling off at the very end. There's some throttle attempts in there, but mostly I'm short shifting to keep it under the lowered limit. (5k ish)

For comparison, I picked a random 60 minute stretch from earlier in the session for the third graph. That's most of one lap.

you rock dude.

 

[Essex Wire]

Add one more Tech that actually experienced limp mod

Tech Pkg

Buttonwillow Raceway

Ambient temp: 65 - 70 deg.

1st session - just reconnaissance laps - 1st time at track. No issues.

2nd session: limp mode after 15mins - as my speed and times got faster

3rd session: limp mode after 10-12 mins

4th session: no point, left early

I drove at the speed and level of a 'low intermediate". (New car, new to track, first time on track in awhile).

 

[zombiekiller]

Alright, so.

This is completely unofficial. Take it for what it is worth. no one put me up to posting this. No one should misconstrue anyone as authoring the content other than myself.

1. I have verified that Ford Performance is working on a solution. This will NOT be a FREE solution. There is no ETA on when it will be available. There will be no conjecture as to what it includes.

2. FP is very clear on the fact that adding a cooler does not instantaneously void your warranty. If the part is shown to have caused a failure, then yes, you will be on the hook for a repair. If the cooler does not lead to a failure and there are not other extraneous circumstances, there is no reason to believe that you will not get the assistance that you need.

3. Threatening LEGAL action is the WORST thing that anyone could possibly do. IF a suit is brought about, Ford Mothership will INSTANTANEOUSLY FORBID ANYONE from Ford Performance from helping anyone or offering solutions/insight/feedback.

If you think this will help anyone. It won't.

One of the gents at FP recommended an aftermarket company that I should reach out to. I will speak with them this week to see if they are willing to put together a kit.

The ask is that everyone be a little reasonable about this. It sounds like it will not be a huge deal to put together a fully functional kit for the $1,000-$1500 range that does not require dropping the trans or permanently modifying it.

Let's not be restless natives attempting to burn Ford at the stake.

Furthermore, I also did some research with my dealer into doing the full trans swap with parts to retrofit the factory setups for Transmission and Differential. There are some challenges with the canbus and getting the sensors to work, programming to work and retrofitting the appropriate harnesses in conjunction with the tech pack stuff.

In short, it would be a complete science experiment and the cost is prohibitive, even if they agree to sell you the parts at cost.

So, the ask is... cool off, sit tight, let those of us that are willing to put the time in work with the aftermarket and Ford Performance to come up with a solution.


Thanks.

 

[arsenalrocks]

thanks for the update ZK. I will be okay with a solution even as simple as a cooler(maybe track pack cooler from ford), run two lines to tranny using the drain and fill holes, and even a manually operated switch under the hood and mount the pump under the hood, which i only need to turn on for track days.

I couldn't care less about tapping into temp sensors etc what is the point? just before you go on track turn that switch on.

can't be more than 1000 USD.

 

[zombiekiller]

thanks for the update ZK. I will be okay with a solution even as simple as a cooler(maybe track pack cooler from ford), run two lines to tranny using the drain and fill holes, and even a manually operated switch under the hood and mount the pump under the hood, which i only need to turn on for track days.

I couldn't care less about tapping into temp sensors etc what is the point? just before you go on track turn that switch on.

can't be more than 1000 USD.

After talking to the aftermarket company (waiting for a call back), their initial thoughts on using the factory hard parts is this: Nope!

Apparently they feel that the cooler is a bit undersized and that the airflow to it is not as good as they'd like.

I've offered to be an alpha tester for them and to offer fiscal support to get the project going.

i will also say that they have not committed to doing the project yet, but do not be surprised if I post up asking for some additional testers/buyers to help get this solution going.

When i get information, i'll share it.

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