Oil Drain valves.

[JungleG1337]

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I found this place to have a good option for us and they are in the US.

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[HoosierDaddy]

Check this out

I found this place to have a good option for us and they are in the US.

That is the Fumotos. Been around for decades. Used them until something better came around. And by better, I don't mean a lot better, but why accept less? I'd still buy them if I was dead broke and couldn't afford he newer valves designs because they are a lot better than a drain plug. I sure wouldn't replace a Fumoto; just wouldn't buy any more. I still have them in a few vehicles.
From the first post:

I used Fumotos for years always looking for something better. The Fumotos have the above advantages but also have down sides including single point of failure for leaks, relatively difficult to open/close to avoid accidental opening, need to operate with gloves since the valve handle is engine oil temperature. Some are very minor downsides, but still downsides. Fumotos are easy to find and buy because personal vehicle owners are a target audience.

 

[HoosierDaddy]

FWIW, I never heard back from Aerotech about the thread lengths which affects how much oil would be left in the pan for a non-horizontal orientation such as the Mustang GT. No impact on horizontal orientation such as V6 or Eco although there may be interference issues with bosses and fins on the pans until verified to not be the case as with any brand valve.

 

[davekro]

I had a 2011 V6 and it has the same threads M12x1.75. And as you point out, since it was horizontal, the length of the threads aren't very important since no matter how long, it won't prevent any oil from draining.

I still recommend getting a Compact/SB (small base) version valve. Even if the physical size of the external part of the valve doesn't matter for a V6 Mustang it MIGHT for a future vehicle with ground clearance issues or even external fins and such in a pan limiting valve width. If you get a LB or standard valve for a Mustang you'll have to use the same type on future vehicles OR have to buy an additional drainer since a drainer only works on one combination of standard/compact and small base/large base. Compact/small base is the most likely to work on any vehicle other than huge industrial engines that require a large base since a small base can only go up to M14 thread sizes.

Make sure you install the valve with the lower of 12 ft-lbs and whatever the factory drain plug torque spec is for a V6.

OK , so as I search what is available in matching (Compact vs Standard) and (SM- 22mm small base vs. LB- 30MM large base),
- The only 22mm Small Base available in 12mm-1.25 for my 'other' main car ('13 Prius) is the 'Standard' (vs. compact) #6090010002 (and only comes in T9).
- For the cast aluminum oil pan on my '15 V6, I was really wanting the longer T12 length to thread into the cast pan. But alas, in a 12mm-1.75, T12 only comes as 'Compact' (7090010150). ( An ≈3/8" bite (minus washer) vs. ≈ 1/2" bite feels less secure. I have no idea how deep the (horizontal) threads are into the cast V6 pan. Maybe 3/8"- bite is enough. Wondering if I should just accept the 3/8" mounting depth with the 'Standard' SB M12-1.75-T9 (6090010004)?

Otherwise, I just spring an extra $13.95 for a second drainer tube, which is not a big deal.

 

[mustang_guy]

My femco broke during installation. It says 12 newtons. Which is 8.85 ftlbs. I know damn well my $1000 Snap-on torque wrench is accurate. Especially since it came back from being recalibrated the week prior. In my opinion its thread shaft is far too thin. Ill be going back to fumoto.

 

[HoosierDaddy]

OK , so as I search what is available in matching (Compact vs Standard) and (SM- 22mm small base vs. LB- 30MM large base),
- The only 22mm Small Base available in 12mm-1.25 for my 'other' main car ('13 Prius) is the 'Standard' (vs. compact) #6090010002 (and only comes in T9).
- For the cast aluminum oil pan on my '15 V6, I was really wanting the longer T12 length to thread into the cast pan. But alas, in a 12mm-1.75, T12 only comes as 'Compact' (7090010150). ( An ≈3/8" bite (minus washer) vs. ≈ 1/2" bite feels less secure. I have no idea how deep the (horizontal) threads are into the cast V6 pan. Maybe 3/8"- bite is enough. Wondering if I should just accept the 3/8" mounting depth with the 'Standard' SB M12-1.75-T9 (6090010004)?

Otherwise, I just spring an extra $13.95 for a second drainer tube, which is not a big deal.

If it matters to you, it might be worth calling them or making a broader search and manually weeding out the chaff because their lookup is flawed. That's how I ended up getting a Standard first because they spelled/punctuated 12mmx1.75 differently for the 9mm thread version of the SB compact for the Mustang.

 

[HoosierDaddy]

My femco broke during installation. It says 12 newtons. Which is 8.85 ftlbs. I know damn well my $1000 Snap-on torque wrench is accurate. Especially since it came back from being recalibrated the week prior. In my opinion its thread shaft is far too thin. Ill be going back to fumoto.

That sucks.

I wonder if the shaft thickness is higher on the standard base versions? Why do you say FAR to thin rather than just too thin? Of course the threads are only "used" once when the device is installed so its not a concern for any that have been installed. That doesn't make an install failure easier to take.

Did you buy it from the Femco USA or from Europe? The USA people were very agreeable to swapping out my LB Standard for a SB compact and paying all the return shipping when their lookup failed to show a SB compact with the preferred thread length.

Thanks for posting. The larger the sampling, the better we can guess on quality of any product. Since there are duds in any product, hard to know from just a few samples.

 

[davekro]

If it matters to you, it might be worth calling them or making a broader search and manually weeding out the chaff because their lookup is flawed. That's how I ended up getting a Standard first because they spelled/punctuated 12mmx1.75 differently for the 9mm thread version of the SB compact for the Mustang.

Great idea to call. I'll call the # you listed in earlier post.

And regarding torque, Anyone know how to find the oem torque spec for the V6's steel drain plug into it's cast aluminum pan? I'm wondering if the cast aluminum might lower the torque from the aftermarket brass valve's 12 lb spec? Maybe 12 lb would still be safe. Certainly if the pan's aluminum threads were significantly more vulnerable than brass threads, it would be a major bummer for the pans threads to fail. :tsk:

Edit: If calling finds they do not have a T12 in my desired config., I may try a trick I read on a drain valve review saying 'you don't need to wait for an oil change to install a drain valve. Just remove the oil fill cap, attach your shop vac hose over the filler tube, then remove oem drain plug and install the new valve plug.' This guy said you'll hear the air sucking in and bubbling thru the oil in the pan, but oil will not come out. Interesting idea. Anyone ever try this? He did not say anything about taping sealing the vacuum hose on the oil inlet, just 'putting it on'. I'll have a drain pan in place just in case, then measure my thread depth in pan. LOL

 

[HoosierDaddy]

Great idea to call. I'll call the # you listed in earlier post.

And regarding torque, Anyone know how to find the oem torque spec for the V6's steel drain plug into it's cast aluminum pan? I'm wondering if the cast aluminum might lower the torque from the aftermarket brass valve's 12 lb spec? Maybe 12 lb would still be safe. Certainly if the pan's aluminum threads were significantly more vulnerable than brass threads, it would be a major bummer for the pans threads to fail. :tsk:

Edit: If calling finds they do not have a T12 in my desired config., I may try a trick I read on a drain valve review saying 'you don't need to wait for an oil change to install a drain valve. Just remove the oil fill cap, attach your shop vac hose over the filler tube, then remove oem drain plug and install the new valve plug.' This guy said you'll hear the air sucking in and bubbling thru the oil in the pan, but oil will not come out. Interesting idea. Anyone ever try this? He did not say anything about taping sealing the vacuum hose on the oil inlet, just 'putting it on'. I'll have a drain pan in place just in case, then measure my thread depth in pan. LOL

That would be awesome to install without draining the oil even though I can't quite figure out why you would want to do it as a separate activity than an oil change. I mean, if you screw up or its engine dependent or ??? you would lose your still good oil unless you have a squeaky clean pan to catch the unexpected draining. Still, that is awesome and makes for great bench wrenching sessions!

As for the torque on the Femcos (or any valve), I think you should use the lower rating for the pan or the valve.

As for the torque for the V6 factory drain plug, I THINK its been posted in this thread, but not sure.

And if I did not mention it before, my replacement SB compact valve container was misprinted to say 25 ft/lbs, more than double what it should say (12 ft/lbs). When I asked the US people via phone why the torque was way higher than for the standard I returned, they said that the European factory had mislabeled some but they thought they had pulled/corrected those labels.

 

[mustang_guy]

That sucks.

I wonder if the shaft thickness is higher on the standard base versions? Why do you say FAR to thin rather than just too thin? Of course the threads are only "used" once when the device is installed so its not a concern for any that have been installed. That doesn't make an install failure easier to take.

Did you buy it from the Femco USA or from Europe? The USA people were very agreeable to swapping out my LB Standard for a SB compact and paying all the return shipping when their lookup failed to show a SB compact with the preferred thread length.

Thanks for posting. The larger the sampling, the better we can guess on quality of any product. Since there are duds in any product, hard to know from just a few samples.

Yeah i was really disappointed because i liked the concept a lot. I say far to thin because after really looking at it, its just that. For something that is torqued into an oil pan its not just slightly thin. I got it from femco usa. I thought about having them send me another but didnt want to be in the same situation with another oil change and nothing to stick back in but the same drain pan bolt. Also not to mention because of its design im lucky i was able to back it out. If it didnt have that other piece holding its threads on id have had a very infuriating afternoon. I may not be so lucky that it holds next time.

 

[mustang_guy]

That would be awesome to install without draining the oil even though I can't quite figure out why you would want to do it as a separate activity than an oil change. I mean, if you screw up or its engine dependent or ??? you would lose your still good oil unless you have a squeaky clean pan to catch the unexpected draining. Still, that is awesome and makes for great bench wrenching sessions!

As for the torque on the Femcos (or any valve), I think you should use the lower rating for the pan or the valve.

As for the torque for the V6 factory drain plug, I THINK its been posted in this thread, but not sure.

And if I did not mention it before, my replacement SB compact valve container was misprinted to say 25 ft/lbs, more than double what it should say (12 ft/lbs). When I asked the US people via phone why the torque was way higher than for the standard I returned, they said that the European factory had mislabeled some but they thought they had pulled/corrected those labels.

i had the sb same as you and 12 newtons ia 8.85 ftlbs not the 12 they told you. Not sure how yours didnt snap.

 

[HoosierDaddy]

Yeah i was really disappointed because i liked the concept a lot. I say far to thin because after really looking at it, its just that. For something that is torqued into an oil pan its not just slightly thin. I got it from femco usa. I thought about having them send me another but didnt want to be in the same situation with another oil change and nothing to stick back in but the same drain pan bolt. Also not to mention because of its design im lucky i was able to back it out. If it didnt have that other piece holding its threads on id have had a very infuriating afternoon. I may not be so lucky that it holds next time.

They should refund your money including shipping. Please post if they make it easy or hard. Also, anything they may say regarding what happened.

Somebody posted about not liking brass because it was soft. At the time, I didn't see how that mattered much but maybe it contributed to your problem.

 

[davekro]

i had the sb same as you and 12 newtons ia 8.85 ftlbs not the 12 they told you. Not sure how yours didn't snap.

Can you describe how the Femco failed? Did it leak and then you removed and saw it was cracked? Something else?

It was the Compact, SB (22mm hex small body), 12mm-1.75T9, right? Do you think the longer T12 thread would be any help?

 

[davekro]

T9 vs T12

Per the spec drawing,
https://www.drainplug.com/usa/compact-sb-7090010150.html
The T9 & T12 (mm) thread depth is actually 2mm shorter with the 2mm washer. So the amount of threaded plug into the oil pan is actually:
T9 -2mm = 7mm (.275")
T12 -2mm = 10mm (.394")

So 1/4" thread grip into oil pan for the 'T9' & 3/8+" for 'T12'.
I guess 1/4" is fine into a steel pan, but I am nervous of only 1/4" of bite having 12 lbs or less of

EDIT:
I just got off the phone with David (very helpful Brit. ) with Femco (800) 340-2147 and no T12 available in SB (small bore) Standard or Compact for my M12-1.75 or M12-1.25 applications.
So I am just going SB, Standard, T9 for both my V6 Mustang (6090010002) and Prius (6090010002). He can ship tomorrow and says I should have by Friday. )

 

[HoosierDaddy]

FWIW: As I posted before, 9mm was the thickness of the GT pan PLUS the washer. 9mm will be flush with the inside of the GT pan. Look at the pictures in post 41. The pan itself is ~4 threads thick as shown by the unpainted portion of the factory drain plug. The 9mm thread length Femco valve has 4 threads past the washer. Don't know the thickness of the V6 or EB pan but with horizontal mount extending into the pan doesn't hurt (or help).

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