OEM PP Pad Life on Track

[Ewheels]

Another brake pad question! Woohoo!

So I took my car in last week for some minor service at my local Mustang shop and the owner said he thinks my pads are at least partially glazed. He claims he heard some slight squeaking which he says is an indication of glazed pads. I haven't had a chance yet to pull the pads off and look at them to know for sure. But does this sound right??

I have 12,000 street miles and 1 track day (my first track day at Auto Club Speedway) on these OEM pads. I find it hard to believe that I would have glazed these in 1 track day.

I am going to Buttonwillow for a two day event next month and don't want to run into issues with my pads. I don't want to go into a turn and have no brakes or have to cut my time short. Maybe my pads are fine or maybe it's time to buy a set of track pads. If I could avoid spending more money though, that would be great.

Does anyone know about how long OEM PP pads should last? I know this is very subjective and includes numerous other variables but trying to get an idea if I should buy new pads or if I'll be OK for two more track days.

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[AlbertD]

As you mentioned, there are too many variables to give any answer with certainty.

The best thing to do is perform a visual inspection of the pads and see how much material is left. I typically change out front pads once the middle notch is worn down level with the rest of the pad. For track use, you want at least 50% material remaining. I would also check the rear pads as well while you are at it. For me the rears typically wear at a faster rate than the fronts.

If I were to take a guess based on the information provided, I would doubt the pads are glazed. Typically you may see residual pad material left on the rotor surface so that is something to look for.

 

[NightmareMoon]

Yes you can absolutely glaze the stock PP pads in a single track day or a single lap even. Glazing happens if they get too hot, its not a question of wear.

A glazed pad can be fixed by simply sanding off the surface glazing, you can do it a home (but wear a mask). Its not a big deal, but if you continue to track on stock performance street pads, expect to deal with some glazing after events. It happens.

 

[Ewheels]

Yes you can absolutely glaze the stock PP pads in a single track day or a single lap even. Glazing happens if they get too hot, its not a question of wear.

A glazed pad can be fixed by simply sanding off the surface glazing, you can do it a home (but wear a mask). Its not a big deal, but if you continue to track on stock performance street pads, expect to deal with some glazing after events. It happens.

Glad to hear. I didn't know if glazed pads could be corrected or if they were trashed. I'll sand the pads then.

 

[PoppinJ]

If you step up to a more aggressive pad material it will scrub the rotors clean for you. I've got slotted rotors and smeared pad material all over the rotors when I was still using stock pads. Was kinda a pain to sand em down. I used red scotch bright so it wouldn't be to aggressive on the rotors. I always cary am extra set of pads with me on track days, and have changed them out in the paddock before if I feel they are getting to low.

Also, mine tend to wear slightly tapered from the bottom so sometimes I will flip them (same rotor inside to outside) so I can wear them evenly.

You're going to need new pads anyways so why wait till half way through an event to discover they are done and your day is over? Even worse why try to squeeze out one more session and end up with a brake failure into the wall? Not worth it.

 

[NightmareMoon]

If you step up to a more aggressive pad material it will scrub the rotors clean for you. I've got slotted rotors and smeared pad material all over the rotors when I was still using stock pads. Was kinda a pain to sand em down. I used red scotch bright so it wouldn't be to aggressive on the rotors. I always cary am extra set of pads with me on track days, and have changed them out in the paddock before if I feel they are getting to low.

Also, mine tend to wear slightly tapered from the bottom so sometimes I will flip them (same rotor inside to outside) so I can wear them evenly.

Your going to need new pads anyways so why wait till half way through an event to discover they are done and your day is over? Even worse ,hy wtry to squeeze out one more session and end up with a brake failure into the wall? Not worth it.

AFAIK there are two types of pads. abrasive pads which don’t deposit material (and which eat rotors quickly) and pads which are intended to “smear pad material” on the rotors, GLOCs for example. I’m not sure sanding down the rotors is a good idea unless switching between incompatible depositing pads.

 

[PoppinJ]

AFAIK there are two types of pads. abrasive pads which don’t deposit material (and which eat rotors quickly) and pads which are intended to “smear pad material” on the rotors, GLOCs for example. I’m not sure sanding down the rotors is a good idea unless switching between incompatible depositing pads.

I don't think sanding the rotors is a particularly good idea either. I just had a TON of pad material come off on the rears (new to tracking with traction control all the way on and cooked the rears) causing a lot of rumbling noise so I used medium scotch bright to take off the excess material. First I drove it for a couple hundred miles hoping it would come off naturally as I didn't want to use sand paper for fear of it being to aggresive.
I got all the excess material off but I'm not sure it was even worth the effort.

 

[GTP]

Street pads glazed my front rotors on a hot track day. Sanding was ineffective, although I would not hesitate to sand rotors again. You can't use too rough of sandpaper, and an electric orbital (woodworking) sander is recommended. The rotors only started to look normal again after 6 months of daily driving.

I have two track days (4 total hours track time) on my new PP pads, and another 1000 miles mellow street driving. There is no center groove left. Pad thickness is still 6mm with some cracking, which seems like another track day left. Comments/opinions?

 

[Ewheels]

For those who are interested, I reached out to Hawk Technical Support and they told me when switching to a more aggressive pad compound, it is not particularly necessary to sand the rotors as the bedding process will remove the old pad material. When switching back to a less aggressive or street compound, the pad is not able to remove the track pad compound on its own and thus will require some sanding, which makes total sense but I like to confirm with experts.

 

[JohnD]

For those who are interested, I reached out to Hawk Technical Support and they told me when switching to a more aggressive pad compound, it is not particularly necessary to sand the rotors as the bedding process will remove the old pad material. When switching back to a less aggressive or street compound, the pad is not able to remove the track pad compound on its own and thus will require some sanding, which makes total sense but I like to confirm with experts.

That's very interesting, wish I had known that when I changed to the Hawk pads.

 

[PaddyPrix]

Greetings fellow SoCal racer. For what it's worth, the stock Performance Pack brakes aren't half bad, because they're likely Ferodo DS2500's. The issue you talk about switching is exactly why I switched to G-Loc, where I'll use something like R12 and R10's on the track, and then GS-1 for daily driving purposes. The Brembos make it decently easy, where you jack it up, take off the tire, pop out a few retaining pins, and pull them from the back of the caliper. I'll be testing them out at Buttonwillow this weekend with SV, if you're there, stop by and say hi.

The stock rotors aren't all that expensive either, front set around $120 if you Google around for GR3Z-1125-L, never hurts to have another set.

 

[Ewheels]

I was changing out my pads this weekend for my new Hawk set. The fronts were straight forward but I had one concern with the rears. Does the metal backing plate not come off on the rear pads? The front plate came off easily and I transferred it to the new pads. But for the rears, I could not get the backing plate off, maybe it's not meant to come off?

 

[fatbillybob]

[QUOTE="] There is no center groove left. Pad thickness is still 6mm with some cracking, which seems like another track day left. Comments/opinions?
the stock Performance Pack brakes aren't half bad, because they're likely Ferodo DS2500's

Does the metal backing plate not come off on the rear pads?
.[/QUOTE]

Need a picture but if you overheat a street pad on track it will crack before it chunks. When it chunks you loose pieces of pad material and that can end up a bad day. When it chucks you loose pad grip and increase heat more and destroy the pad. It is similar to when you overheat a street tire on track and the tire starts to chunk.

the PP pads can't be DS2500 because those are a race pad. Honestly these stock PP pads don't stop the car at speed. I have had 1 trackday on them and they allow a long pedal that does not modulate release well and has poor initial bite and not enough Mu to slow my stock 19 GT pp1 down without drama that makes me wait before the car settles enough for me to turn in. Can some of that be chassis? Yes I hope so.

That metal pad if fixed to the pad don't worry about it. Your new pad depending on design may or may not have that. This shims have multiple purposes like anti-rattle, heat dissipation etc. If you new pads lack that plate just install them as is.

 

[fatbillybob]

[QUOTE="] There is no center groove left. Pad thickness is still 6mm with some cracking, which seems like another track day left. Comments/opinions?
the stock Performance Pack brakes aren't half bad, because they're likely Ferodo DS2500's

Does the metal backing plate not come off on the rear pads?
.[/QUOTE]

Need a picture but if you overheat a street pad on track it will crack before it chunks. When it chunks you loose pieces of pad material and that can end up a bad day. When it chucks you loose pad grip and increase heat more and destroy the pad. It is similar to when you overheat a street tire on track and the tire starts to chunk.

the PP pads can't be DS2500 because those are a race pad. Honestly these stock PP pads don't stop the car at speed. I have had 1 trackday on them and they allow a long pedal that does not modulate release well and has poor initial bite and not enough Mu to slow my stock 19 GT pp1 down without drama that makes me wait before the car settles enough for me to turn in. Can some of that be chassis? Yes I hope so.

That metal pad if fixed to the pad don't worry about it. Your new pad depending on design may or may not have that. This shims have multiple purposes like anti-rattle, heat dissipation etc. If you new pads lack that plate just install them as is.

 

[Ewheels]

the PP pads can't be DS2500 because those are a race pad.

DS2500 are definitely not race pads.

That metal pad if fixed to the pad don't worry about it. Your new pad depending on design may or may not have that. This shims have multiple purposes like anti-rattle, heat dissipation etc. If you new pads lack that plate just install them as is.

This is useful. Thank you

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