They really need to put all the cars on the same tires.
And it's not just them that do it when they test cars. Most testers do the same thing. But mixing street tires vs Cup 2's and Trofeo R's is almost pointless.Good point Michelin sponsors the video so it would seem they have the ability to do it.
It's just comparing two cars in how they are delivered from the factory. Cup 2s and Trofeo Rs ARE street tires. Given there are a lot of people who won't use them on the street due to the high cost and short life, but it certainly can be done with no legal repercussions.And it's not just them that do it when they test cars. Most testers do the same thing. But mixing street tires vs Cup 2's and Trofeo R's is almost pointless.
I have to disagree, I don’t think they are Ford haters. I do think Thomas is a bit salty about Ford not giving them a Mach to do a lap time with, but he had plenty of good things to say about the DH. And he absolutely loves the GT350/R. They’re not the biggest fans of the regular GT PP1 but to be fair the GT PP1 is not built for the track like a Mach, DH or even a PP2.
The DH put down an impressive lap time as did the Mach. The S650 in general is a really good car, it’s not enough of an upgrade for me personally to move on from my 2022 but it would be a big upgrade over the S197 and possibly even the 2015-2017 cars (not looking to start a battle as far as looks, interior, etc, but from a pure performance numbers standpoint the S650 is an upgrade)
All that aside, I’m just glad Ford is continuing on with the Mustang in general and specifically with V8’s. It’s a shame the others are bowing out, competition is always a good thing
I feel like TH is anti-Ford. It's hard to blame them when Ford won't give them cars to review, but if their reviews are biased, then it makes them entertainment only with a lot less useful content than they could have.
I would agree with you if they had compared the DH to the 1LE and in the other video if they would have compared the PP1 to a lesser SS.I have to disagree, I don’t think they are Ford haters. I do think Thomas is a bit salty about Ford not giving them a Mach to do a lap time with, but he had plenty of good things to say about the DH. And he absolutely loves the GT350/R. They’re not the biggest fans of the regular GT PP1 but to be fair the GT PP1 is not built for the track like a Mach, DH or even a PP2.
I've also seen reviews of the new Mustang where they say that there is a lack of feedback with the junky PP1 tires, but good feedback with the stickier tires. Past reviews of the Camaro always said the steering was precise, but numb and that Mustangs had better feedback. There are some reviewers that I find more believable than others.This. If anything, and, this is because Thomas especially more so than James always looks at cars with a heavy track focused lens. He owns multiple old school cars that have really crisp feedback through the wheel and he gravitates to cars that give him that in these segments. Plan and simple.
This is something that Matt Farah confirmed in his drive review of the new GT as a secondary source which was steering feel/feedback was non-existent (or at least not improved vs the S550 which one can argue was the primary weakness of the our cars that's not addressable in any shape or form). To go on even more watch Carlos Lago's DH review on the Car and Driver channel, says the exact same sentiment and one can argue this was the biggest opportunity Ford had to improve the S550 chassis vs S650.
The "chassis" is essentially the same in all Mustangs since 2015. Most models have soft bushings, shocks and springs. The performance models have stiffer suspension setups and larger, stickier tires. It doesn't make sense to me that the DH lost something essential that the GT350 had. The Mach 1 and DH with handling packages and GT350 should be very similar as far as handling goes. Time on track says that the Mach 1 and DH suspensions might even be slightly superior. They certainly produce similar times.Also keep in mind Thomas loves the GT350 and the GT500 (primarily because of the steering and the chassis dynamics, see the theme?
Good point. Makes sense.Regarding the review, keep in mind what youtube is pushing for views right now. Unfortunately shortform content. For creators like TH they have to be very methodical with how long their videos are. Unless its a sit down chat, most of their videos rarely run past the 20 odd minute mark. I'm sure if they do an extra TH update or have the ability to expand on it without limit I think you would see more of the discussion you're looking for.
I having driven both back to back in the automatic form (granted again talking Supercar 3 vs Pilot Sport Cup 2's) I'd agree with the sentiment that was in line with most of the notable automotive reviewers that the Camaro just has the sharper nose (you just have the natural slop/gooiness/deadzone on mustangs). Granted I haven't had the opportunity to really compare with the GT350/500 variants.I've also seen reviews of the new Mustang where they say that there is a lack of feedback with the junky PP1 tires, but good feedback with the stickier tires. Past reviews of the Camaro always said the steering was precise, but numb and that Mustangs had better feedback. There are some reviewers that I find more believable than others.
Ford says the new steering should have better feedback. So I get the impression that Thomas has an axe to grind more so than the steering suddenly became terrible in the Mustang. It just doesn't make sense to me.
I don't disagree with all the points you made in the first half of your first paragraph. I don't think anyone is arguing your second sentence in the second paragraph either (at least I haven't seen that at all).The "chassis" is essentially the same in all Mustangs since 2015. Most models have soft bushings, shocks and springs. The performance models have stiffer suspension setups and larger, stickier tires. It doesn't make sense to me that the DH lost something essential that the GT350 had. The Mach 1 and DH with handling packages and GT350 should be very similar as far as handling goes. Time on track says that the Mach 1 and DH suspensions might even be slightly superior. They certainly produce similar times.
Yes the GT350 has better brakes and a better engine, but handling should be roughly equivalent. Unless someone is trying to say Ford lost the formula on how they made the GT350 good? Like I said, that makes no sense.
I think the explanation is that the GT350 review was before Ford stiffed Throttle House. That seems to be the simplest explanation.
I have driven several Camaros through the years, and none of them seemed that sharp or special to me. I was even actively looking to buy something else, because I wanted to own something other than all Mustangs. I ended up in a C5 Z06, which still had a mediocre LS engine, but the suspension and weight of the car made it a much better handling car than the Mustang or the Camaro. The only reason I sold the C5 is it doesn't have enough headroom for me. All the other nits I had with that car could have been fixed over time.I having driven both back to back in the automatic form (granted again talking Supercar 3 vs Pilot Sport Cup 2's) I'd agree with the sentiment that was in line with most of the notable automotive reviewers that the Camaro just has the sharper nose (you just have the natural slop/gooiness/deadzone on mustangs). Granted I haven't had the opportunity to really compare with the GT350/500 variants.
I mean we are all here for one reason or another, otherwise I think the camaro would've lived onI have driven several Camaros through the years, and none of them seemed that sharp or special to me. I was even actively looking to buy something else, because I wanted to own something other than all Mustangs. I ended up in a C5 Z06, which still had a mediocre LS engine, but the suspension and weight of the car made it a much better handling car than the Mustang or the Camaro. The only reason I sold the C5 is it doesn't have enough headroom for me. All the other nits I had with that car could have been fixed over time.
I have driven 1LEs, but I didn't like the engine and the shifter very much. I liked the sound of the engine, but the way it produced power didn't do that much for me. The Coyote is better in my opinion and it's not even close as far as I'm concerned. But I haven't been fortunate enough to drive one on track. Maybe that would change my mind.
The thing is, I would still have to live with the engine and shifter every day even if the track performance was stellar. It's not enough for me. I would love to live at the track and have that be my absolute top priority, but I have to admit I spend 99% of my time on public roads. So since I've never noticed anything impressively different about the Camaro, I'll probably never own one.
I do have to admit I'm also swayed by the direct injection only engines in Camaros, which I don't like. And to me the interior isn't very good, although I do like the non-Recaro Camaro seats.