New to foam cannon washing, what am i doing wrong

[Evolvd]

Well I gave it another go today. About half the amount of soap I normally use in the cannon and a little less in the bucket. Unfortunately the foam production was very minimal, even with the cannon cranked to max foam. I'm going to try again this weekend . I think part of the foam production issue might be my inlet jet. I'm going to step down to the 1.1 and see if that produces better.

Part of that maybe an issue with leaving leftover residue on the vehicle as well. It seems like the lower foam produced today had me running into a drying issue while using the mit during the brand wash. I'll have to experiment some more this weekend.

As far as the water goes, I don't remember what the test showed years ago other than I have very hard water. But I installed my water softener a out 8 years ago, so im notnsure if that would be an issue.

A few things, how many GPM is your pressure washer putting out? Best way to test it is to spray straight water from your cannon into an empty bucket for one minute and then weigh the difference between and empty and filled bucket. One gallon is approximately 8.34 lbs so do the math and you should know your GPM. If your GPM is low, like 1.2 or lower then I’d try the 1.1 orifice. But be aware, depending on the amperage draw of your PW that small of an orifice could over amp your circuit and trip the breaker.

which reminds me, what foam canon are you using?

Sponsored

 

[blankman]

I'm actually not sure what gpm it is. I picked up a ryobi 1800psi on sale, so im using that. I think it's rated on the lower side for gpm. Each bay in my garage has its own dedicated 20a outlet on its own run, so I shouldn't have to worry about that.

I'm using a bear force 1 .

So even with the wash today it looked great after I finished drying and stepped away. Stopped at the gas station on my way to work and there is the haze again , but this time it looks likes it is all dried residue left over the entire car. I used a microfiber to dry it off this time. So im not sure what's going on.

I was thinking about using a detail spray tomorrow to see if that will remove it. Or would I be better off with a clay bar and waxing it? It was waxed after the recon in the first week of April, and it has rained relentlessly up here for awhile. Any thoughts?

 

[DFB5.0]

So after I purchased the car I had the outside reconed to take of some swirl marks and CC scratches buffed out on the black roof, spoiler and general CC taken care of. Looked like glass when I picked it up. So after a 1600 mile drive home it seems to be keeping up at least with the beading. I decided to get into the whole foam cannon washing paradigm and I seem to be having some issues. Previous mustangs in my life were always wash and dry with a micro fiber motor and a drying towel.

So being new to the cannon game I have been having a guy at work sort of guiding me through the new techniques. Pressure washer, foam cannon, 3 buckets, 1 for wheels with a micro fiber just for wheels with a bucket. I picked up a chemical guys kit with foam wash. The diablo wheel cleaner sucks, but ive managed with a barrel brush and the 5 finger wash it for wheels. Aside from that product, I seem to be having issues either with my wash method, water, settings on the foam cannon or just my method in general.

My typical route is foam the whole car, wheels and tires included. I give the foam.about a 5 minute dwell time, hit the wheels and tires, spray the car off with either the pressure washer or an easy rain stream from the normal hose. Foam the car again, foam the wash bucket a little then grt to work on the body. Normal straight wash moves in lines. Everything seems to go ok, but before I goto dry it off , whether it be a blower or towel deal, there seems to be cloudy haze or film on the car. If I hit it again with water and use the wash mit it sort of takes care of it, but It looks like there is still a haze on the vehicle that I can remove with a light pressure with a new micro Fibre towel.

I'm not sure what is going on or what I'm doing wrong. I'm going to wash again tomorrow I've tried cranking down the soap use of the cannon, have tried using less soap for the cannon, as sometimes it seems like nits drying onto the car. Again I prefer to wash either before the sun really hits anything or when the sun has moved far enough where the car is cool to the touch. I'm using coler water from the tap that is softened.

I'm open to any suggestions or testing as I am just trying to figure out whats going on. Maybe a water issue, or a product issue , or washing issue?

I appreciate all the help.

You process is sound, so this has me questioning what Chemical Guys soap you are using. As others have mentioned, most soaps available in the big box stores contain fillers, gloss enhancers and conditioning agents. This can screw around with whatever wax/sealant/ceramic coating you have on the car, usually by the presence of a hazy film.

The good news is, there are plenty of soaps on the market that will foam and rinse cleanly. For something low cost, Adam's Car Shampoo (the blue one) or Mega Foam (the red one) are brilliant choices. Stepping up, I would be looking at SN Snow, Koch Chemie GSF, Carpro Reset, DIY Detail Incredible Suds or Shine Supply Shift. All are excellent soaps that can be used in a bucket and/or foam cannon.

Well I gave it another go today. About half the amount of soap I normally use in the cannon and a little less in the bucket. Unfortunately the foam production was very minimal, even with the cannon cranked to max foam. I'm going to try again this weekend . I think part of the foam production issue might be my inlet jet. I'm going to step down to the 1.1 and see if that produces better.

I'm actually not sure what gpm it is. I picked up a ryobi 1800psi on sale, so im using that. I think it's rated on the lower side for gpm. Each bay in my garage has its own dedicated 20a outlet on its own run, so I shouldn't have to worry about that.

On an 1800 psi Ryobi, the recommended foam cannon orifice is the 1.1. Swap that out and you should have great foam.

The_Pressure_Washer_Spreadsheet_-_July_2022.pdf (shopify.com)

I was thinking about using a detail spray tomorrow to see if that will remove it. Or would I be better off with a clay bar and waxing it? It was waxed after the recon in the first week of April, and it has rained relentlessly up here for awhile. Any thoughts?

Only use a clay bar if the car needs it, as in it feels contaminated (rough to touch). In any case, clay won't be of help in this case.

 

[skinnyb]

I'm actually not sure what gpm it is. I picked up a ryobi 1800psi on sale, so im using that. I think it's rated on the lower side for gpm. Each bay in my garage has its own dedicated 20a outlet on its own run, so I shouldn't have to worry about that.

I'm using a bear force 1 .

So even with the wash today it looked great after I finished drying and stepped away. Stopped at the gas station on my way to work and there is the haze again , but this time it looks likes it is all dried residue left over the entire car. I used a microfiber to dry it off this time. So im not sure what's going on.

I was thinking about using a detail spray tomorrow to see if that will remove it. Or would I be better off with a clay bar and waxing it? It was waxed after the recon in the first week of April, and it has rained relentlessly up here for awhile. Any thoughts?

I have the 1800 Karcher and the 1.1 orfice in my foam canon made a big difference. Makes great foam. This was with Gyeon Foam mixed 8:1 which is a little strong, but foams really well... There is a Grabber Blue Mustang under there somewhere

 

[blankman]

Sorry I new to this style of forum. It's been awhile. So if I'm not quoting anyone my apologies, I don't want to drive you to this post more then necessary.

Still haven't figured out quoting after 10 minutes. Pro in no time

That's what I figured the cannon would do, but I'd need half a damn bottle of soap to get anywhere close to that. Ok so orifice change will happen this week. it'll be a couple days till I have the time to try again.

I'm curious , for full coverage like then spraying it off then coverage like that again before a hand wash? How much of the cannon bottle do you go through?

My other question is, when I finally get all this dialed in, if I'm looking for a midweek wash without having to hand-wash, is that possible with the foam? I ask because tiny apparently every two days a bird loves to shit on my car, and also the pollen and flowering trees love to dump themselves on the car every couple of days.

 

[skinnyb]

Sorry I new to this style of forum. It's been awhile. So if I'm not quoting anyone my apologies, I don't want to drive you to this post more then necessary.

Still haven't figured out quoting after 10 minutes. Pro in no time

That's what I figured the cannon would do, but I'd need half a damn bottle of soap to get anywhere close to that. Ok so orifice change will happen this week. it'll be a couple days till I have the time to try again.

I'm curious , for full coverage like then spraying it off then coverage like that again before a hand wash? How much of the cannon bottle do you go through?

My other question is, when I finally get all this dialed in, if I'm looking for a midweek wash without having to hand-wash, is that possible with the foam? I ask because tiny apparently every two days a bird loves to shit on my car, and also the pollen and flowering trees love to dump themselves on the car every couple of days.

I can fill my canon up (1 liter) and use a little over half for the initial soak. Then I rinse and foam again, not quite as much this time til the canon is emptied. Then I have a bucket with some soapy water that I proceed to wash with.

As for mid week touch ups, I use rinseless wash. Very quick and effective. Only uses about 3 gallons of water. Works amazing for basic dust, pollen and the occasional bird bomb. A pre spray with a pressurized sprayer then clean is all you need... Many different brands and types to chose from but my favorite at the moment is Opticoat No rinse. I also use P&S Absolute and DIY Detail rinseless wash.

Good video tutorial I used to get started..

 

[Evolvd]

Sorry I new to this style of forum. It's been awhile. So if I'm not quoting anyone my apologies, I don't want to drive you to this post more then necessary.

Still haven't figured out quoting after 10 minutes. Pro in no time

That's what I figured the cannon would do, but I'd need half a damn bottle of soap to get anywhere close to that. Ok so orifice change will happen this week. it'll be a couple days till I have the time to try again.

I'm curious , for full coverage like then spraying it off then coverage like that again before a hand wash? How much of the cannon bottle do you go through?

My other question is, when I finally get all this dialed in, if I'm looking for a midweek wash without having to hand-wash, is that possible with the foam? I ask because tiny apparently every two days a bird loves to shit on my car, and also the pollen and flowering trees love to dump themselves on the car every couple of days.

You shouldn’t need to foam again before your hand wash unless the car is just absolutely filthy. And if that were the case you’d be needing a more aggressive soap to cut down the grime.

Typically what I do for a maintenance wash is foam, rinse, and then dry. For a hand wash I’ll foam, rinse, and then dump whatever is left in the cannon into the bucket and agitate with the spray wand. I don’t use more than 2 or 3 gallons total for hand wash so the leftover soap from the cannon is typically enough for hand washing. You just need enough to get the lubricity and allow the mitt or pad to glide over the paint.

Of course all of this varies by how dirty the car is.

 

[vaeevictiss]

couple things

1. There is a trick to using anything Chemical Guys make. To get the best results, take the bottle, throw it in the trash can, and buy literally fucking anything else. After testing everything under the sun, i settled on nearly all CarPro products. They are a big name for a reason, their shit just works. I think the only non carpro stuff i use are brake blaster and gyeon wet coat

2. pressure washer pressure and flow matters.

3. You wouldnt think so, but the quality of the sprayer works. I had a cheap foam gun and it sprayed mostly water so it was a runny foam. With a better quality foam cannon...same soap...same pressure washer, i now get the sticky, shaving cream consistency foam.

4. most importantly, as cool as it is, the foam cannon really does nothing a high pressure rinse wont do. Only time i would say its worth it is for a yearly high pH rinse to really strip it down before you prep it for the season.

That being said, do i still use mine every time? Yup lol. Because its fun.

 

[Evolvd]

4. most importantly, as cool as it is, the foam cannon really does nothing a high pressure rinse wont do. Only time i would say its worth it is for a yearly high pH rinse to really strip it down before you prep it for the season.

That being said, do i still use mine every time? Yup lol. Because its fun.

Going to disagree with you here. The whole point of using a foam cannon is to encapsulate the dirt allowing it to slide off the paint without micro-marring the clear coat. If you blast water across dirty paint sure you’ll remove the dirt, but it’s dragging all those particles against the clear coat.

 

[vaeevictiss]

Going to disagree with you here. The whole point of using a foam cannon is to encapsulate the dirt allowing it to slide off the paint without micro-marring the clear coat. If you blast water across dirty paint sure you’ll remove the dirt, but it’s dragging all those particles against the clear coat.

I dunno. Ive read a lot of posts on detailing forums over the past year and they can explain it a lot better than I can but basically they determined that they made no difference, especially if you're already ceramic coated. They said it was only worth it for heavily soiled cars as they will still do nothing for slightly dirty cars as that will require physical agitation.

With a high pressure wash, by the time any of the bigger particles that a foam cannon would work on start moving, there is already a layer of water between the dirt and the paint, and they are carried away without scratching.

Its similar to using something like ONR. You're not pre foaming the car with that, you're just physically moving the dirt. If it messed up the paint, there wouldn't be millions of people washing their cars with that method (i dunno if its millions but its a lot lol).

 

[Evolvd]

I dunno. Ive read a lot of posts on detailing forums over the past year and they can explain it a lot better than I can but basically they determined that they made no difference, especially if you're already ceramic coated. They said it was only worth it for heavily soiled cars as they will still do nothing for slightly dirty cars as that will require physical agitation.

With a high pressure wash, by the time any of the bigger particles that a foam cannon would work on start moving, there is already a layer of water between the dirt and the paint, and they are carried away without scratching.

Its similar to using something like ONR. You're not pre foaming the car with that, you're just physically moving the dirt. If it messed up the paint, there wouldn't be millions of people washing their cars with that method (i dunno if its millions but its a lot lol).

Waterless wash has a small window of use in my opinion. Great for a dusty car or very light road grime. I’d never use it as a sole method of cleaning.

Again, it all depends on how dirty your car is. And not to argue the point, but for every detailer you can mention who talks against foaming, I can find just as many who are for it.

 

[MAGS1]

There are certain soaps that I can say with 100% certainty are most effective because of the foam cannon. Carpro Lift is one of them. It is designed for foam cannons and the foam is meant to encapsulate dirt, grime, road film, etc. and pull it off the car. I daily my car, winters included, so my car picks up a lot of crap. Road salt in particular in the winter time. The first wash of the spring with Carpro Lift you can see all the dirt and crap in the foam on the driveway once in runs off the car. So it is absolutely doing its job because of the foam cannon.

Now, if you want to say a second foam after the first foam isn’t completely necessary, that’s a little easier argument to make. I will do a second foam after the first foam and rinse more for lubrication than anything else. As far as actual cleaning, that second foam probably isn’t doing much in its own assuming the first foam was effective (it should be). The hand wash with the second foam is what is really doing the cleaning at that point.

We all have different methods that work for us, find what works for you. But I think we can all agree on one thing, nobody should use the California Scratchers (I mean Dusters)

 

[skinnyb]

There are certain soaps that I can say with 100% certainty are most effective because of the foam cannon. Carpro Lift is one of them. It is designed for foam cannons and the foam is meant to encapsulate dirt, grime, road film, etc. and pull it off the car. I daily my car, winters included, so my car picks up a lot of crap. Road salt in particular in the winter time. The first wash of the spring with Carpro Lift you can see all the dirt and crap in the foam on the driveway once in runs off the car. So it is absolutely doing its job because of the foam cannon.

Now, if you want to say a second foam after the first foam isn’t completely necessary, that’s a little easier argument to make. I will do a second foam after the first foam and rinse more for lubrication than anything else. As far as actual cleaning, that second foam probably isn’t doing much in its own assuming the first foam was effective (it should be). The hand wash with the second foam is what is really doing the cleaning at that point.

We all have different methods that work for us, find what works for you. But I think we can all agree on one thing, nobody should use the California Scratchers (I mean Dusters)

Scratch o Matic 5000. Remember, its a patented saying LOL.

And yes, I love a high PH initial rinse at least once every few months, otherwise I just foam the PH neutral on both times. I haven't settled on which one I really like best but I have several and pair the corresponding PH neutral soap to match the pre rinse in the bucket (Ie Lift with Reset or Gyeon Foam and Bathe, NV Snow+ and Snow, Active Foam and GSF, etc). Yeah, I got a lot of soap LOL... When I really want to bring out the big guns, Koch Chemie Multi Star is STOUT, it really brings down the house...

 

[kilobravo]

OP: As I expected, a whole lot of folks chimed in including our Master Detailing Guru (@DFB5.0) and from what I know about the subject, the replies pretty much covered the main points. However comman, I have to add to my two pesos. <grin>

First off, I agree with your idea and those of others to change the orifice. Second, that Bear Force cannon leaves a lot to be desired. Just watched the most recent review and the guy only gave it a mediocre score.

Even so, with effort and the right ratio, he got what I would descibe as "decent foam" but, the MTM22 is only seventy bones more than the BF1 and I would HIGHLY recommend that you save yourself a whole lot of aggravation and get one.

But I installed my water softener a out 8 years ago, so im notnsure if that would be an issue.

With a whole house softener, (assuming it is operating properly,) you should not have issues with foam due to dissolved solids.

Mine is only about 75PPM TDS so not too bad

Not many folks are as lucky as Alex to have very low mineral content in their municipal water supply. (I am SO envious, dude.) :=) Here, the TDS is off the charts varying from 500ppm to as high as 1100! The system I installed knocks that back to around 300-400 thankfully and I get excellent foam with the MTM22 and a Kranzle so I am pretty sure your ionized water is plenty soft enough.

IMO, I believe there are three areas where you could improve the situation:

- The foam cannon as I mentioned

- The Ryobi unit and despite their advertising claims, I don't think that your unit is reaching the minimum requirements. My research shows a general rule of thumb for this..a minimum of 1100psi and 1.5 GPM. As you probably saw from D's Obsessed Garage spreadsheet, the actual output pressure and flow rate are always lower than the manufacturer claims.

- The soap. I started foaming way back when with Chemical Guys' HoneyDew Snow Foam but was never entirely happy with it. Then I signed on here, learned the error of my ways, and switched to a quality pH neutral soap. Definitely ditch CGs and pick up one of the recommendations mentioned by others.

It seems like the lower foam produced today had me running into a drying issue while using the mit during the brand wash.

Then I rinse and foam again, not quite as much this time til the canon is emptied.

I use the same procedure as Alex and always rinse off the foam before hand washing.

If you blast water across dirty paint sure you’ll remove the dirt, but it’s dragging all those particles against the clear coat.

I understand your logic, Brian but my thinking is, even though the foam will drag a good bit of the grime off, there is still some dirt on the clear coat, especially on the horizontal surfaces, if you hand wash after foaming without rinsing first. To me, that's a much higher risk of marring with a heavy wash mit dragging across the paint, even without any pressure. I also rinse with a 40-degree nozzle and stay well away.

I was thinking about using a detail spray tomorrow to see if that will remove it. Or would I be better off with a clay bar and waxing it?

D covered that and you definitely don't want to use a clay bar for haze.

As for mid week touch ups, I use rinseless wash.

That's the answer for the touch up wash and there are some really good rinseless products out there as many have mentioned.

So, the first thing I would do is try that more restrictive nozzle orifice, it just might get you where you would like to be. But, if you're still not completely happy, chuck the BF1 into the trash and pick up an MTM22.

But even with that, the Ryobi may simply not be adequate. If it's not, do yourself a favor and get a quality unit with known characteristics. Hell, I think I went through three or four of the el cheapo pw's (think a hundred bones like the Ryobi,) throwing them in the trash every year or so.

Some products on the inexpensive side can be more than good enough, take some of the HoBo Freight stuff for example. But, when the task is both important and, it's something you do quite frequently and, occupies a good bit of your free time, my advice is to up your PW game. There are numerous, detailed posts here on which units are the most reliable and, give you the output you need.

For sure most of us who frequent the detailing forum suffer from major league OCD and we're always looking to improve our game. <smile> The upside is, readers benefit from the vast amount of information and experiences.

I know you'll get to the place where you're smiling over great foam and no haze afterward, you just may have to shell out a few bones to get there.

 

[Evolvd]

OP: As I expected, a whole lot of folks chimed in including our Master Detailing Guru (@DFB5.0) and from what I know about the subject, the replies pretty much covered the main points. However comman, I have to add to my two pesos. <grin>

First off, I agree with your idea and those of others to change the orifice. Second, that Bear Force cannon leaves a lot to be desired. Just watched the most recent review and the guy only gave it a mediocre score.

Even so, with effort and the right ratio, he got what I would descibe as "decent foam" but, the MTM22 is only seventy bones more than the BF1 and I would HIGHLY recommend that you save yourself a whole lot of aggravation and get one.



With a whole house softener, (assuming it is operating properly,) you should not have issues with foam due to dissolved solids.



Not many folks are as lucky as Alex to have very low mineral content in their municipal water supply. (I am SO envious, dude.) :=) Here, the TDS is off the charts varying from 500ppm to as high as 1100! The system I installed knocks that back to around 300-400 thankfully and I get excellent foam with the MTM22 and a Kranzle so I am pretty sure your ionized water is plenty soft enough.

IMO, I believe there are three areas where you could improve the situation:

- The foam cannon as I mentioned

- The Ryobi unit and despite their advertising claims, I don't think that your unit is reaching the minimum requirements. My research shows a general rule of thumb for this..a minimum of 1100psi and 1.5 GPM. As you probably saw from D's Obsessed Garage spreadsheet, the actual output pressure and flow rate are always lower than the manufacturer claims.

- The soap. I started foaming way back when with Chemical Guys' HoneyDew Snow Foam but was never entirely happy with it. Then I signed on here, learned the error of my ways, and switched to a quality pH neutral soap. Definitely ditch CGs and pick up one of the recommendations mentioned by others.





I use the same procedure as Alex and always rinse off the foam before hand washing.



I understand your logic, Brian but my thinking is, even though the foam will drag a good bit of the grime off, there is still some dirt on the clear coat, especially on the horizontal surfaces, if you hand wash after foaming without rinsing first. To me, that's a much higher risk of marring with a heavy wash mit dragging across the paint, even without any pressure. I also rinse with a 40-degree nozzle and stay well away.


D covered that and you definitely don't want to use a clay bar for haze.



That's the answer for the touch up wash and there are some really good rinseless products out there as many have mentioned.

So, the first thing I would do is try that more restrictive nozzle orifice, it just might get you where you would like to be. But, if you're still not completely happy, chuck the BF1 into the trash and pick up an MTM22.

But even with that, the Ryobi may simply not be adequate. If it's not, do yourself a favor and get a quality unit with known characteristics. Hell, I think I went through three or four of the el cheapo pw's (think a hundred bones like the Ryobi,) throwing them in the trash every year or so.

Some products on the inexpensive side can be more than good enough, take some of the HoBo Freight stuff for example. But, when the task is both important and, it's something you do quite frequently and, occupies a good bit of your free time, my advice is to up your PW game. There are numerous, detailed posts here on which units are the most reliable and, give you the output you need.

For sure most of us who frequent the detailing forum suffer from major league OCD and we're always looking to improve our game. <smile> The upside is, readers benefit from the vast amount of information and experiences.

I know you'll get to the place where you're smiling over great foam and no haze afterward, you just may have to shell out a few bones to get there.

Just to clarify, I foam, rinse, and then hand wash. I only foam again if the surface is still dirty after the first rinse.

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