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jacknifetoaswan

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jacknifetoaswan

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I think it's great if car manufacturers want to try new things. I don't plan to ever purchase a car that offers a subscription related feature, though. And I would strongly consider never purchasing from any manufacturer that was pushing subscription features like that.

New Jersey sounds like a really crappy place to live. I guess I can't really say more than that without getting into forbidden topics.
Your Mustang has a subscription-based feature. Two, most likely. SiriusXM is subscription-based, as is the activation of the traffic alerting features within the built-in navigation.

My new Bronco has multiple navigation options, one of which is my Android Auto (always the preference), but also a connected navigation system, which requires a subscription.

So...

JR
 

Balr14

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Your Mustang has a subscription-based feature. Two, most likely. SiriusXM is subscription-based, as is the activation of the traffic alerting features within the built-in navigation.

My new Bronco has multiple navigation options, one of which is my Android Auto (always the preference), but also a connected navigation system, which requires a subscription.

So...

JR
You are right, we are already paying for subscription based services. My wife pays for On-Star and the phone on her GM SUV. But, I don't pay for any on my Mustang.
 

BluePonyGT

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Your Mustang has a subscription-based feature. Two, most likely. SiriusXM is subscription-based, as is the activation of the traffic alerting features within the built-in navigation.

My new Bronco has multiple navigation options, one of which is my Android Auto (always the preference), but also a connected navigation system, which requires a subscription.

So...

JR
I was just saying this very thing. So the result is I get traffic and other indicators on my map in my mustang including the ability to search for addresses. My wife does not on her brand new bronco. I wish I knew about this ahead of time - I would have told them I expected these features as-is and not on a subscription. It was my first time encountering this during a purchase. On her first oil change I asked how to "fix" this. They just looked at me like I was stupid. Ugly feeling for sure.
 

BluePonyGT

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Usually I would agree, but in this particular case the market isn't varied enough and competitive enough to make this work naturally. Most people who want a BMW want a BMW - period. They will not buy a Kia instead just because it doesn't charge extra for the heated seats. They will grudgingly accept to pay. Just like 2022 MY Mustang owners didn't buy a Camaro because of the missing 10 HP. Or 2021 MY Mustang owners didn't turn it down because of the missing glove box light. They accepted it, for all its faults, because that was the car they wanted in the first place.
Car manufacturers know this. They know most of their customers may protest a bit, but then they'll buy the car anyway. So giving them a free pass to charge whatever they want for whatever feature they see fit isn't a good idea.
You're right of course. I just wish it wasn't.
 

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Hack

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Usually I would agree, but in this particular case the market isn't varied enough and competitive enough to make this work naturally. Most people who want a BMW want a BMW - period. They will not buy a Kia instead just because it doesn't charge extra for the heated seats. They will grudgingly accept to pay. Just like 2022 MY Mustang owners didn't buy a Camaro because of the missing 10 HP. Or 2021 MY Mustang owners didn't turn it down because of the missing glove box light. They accepted it, for all its faults, because that was the car they wanted in the first place.
Car manufacturers know this. They know most of their customers may protest a bit, but then they'll buy the car anyway. So giving them a free pass to charge whatever they want for whatever feature they see fit isn't a good idea.
There are so many cool cars in Europe, I'm surprised that people buy BMWs. Especially the new ones that are kind of crappy.

I think heated seats are nice to have, but I don't own a car with heated seats. I'd probably just buy a Porsche instead of a Bimmer.
 

Vlad Soare

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There are so many cool cars in Europe, I'm surprised that people buy BMWs. Especially the new ones that are kind of crappy.

I think heated seats are nice to have, but I don't own a car with heated seats. I'd probably just buy a Porsche instead of a Bimmer.
There are some crappy BMWs, to be sure, but also some that are absolute kings in their class.

Personally, I don't really see Porsche as a direct competitor to BMW. For one, proper Porsches are insanely expensive (not that equivalent BMWs are cheap, but still...). Then, proper Porsches are just variations on the same theme; they're all basically the same car. If you happen not to like the squashed Beetle design, or all the peculiarities that come with an engine placed in the back, you're out of luck.
I'm saying "proper Porsches" because Porsche does have its share of crappy models as well. OK, maybe not crappy per se, since I'm sure they are technical masterpieces, but uglier than a mud fence. I mean, I might consider a 911 instead of an M4, but a Panamera instead of a 5-series? No way in hell. I can't even look at that hideous gargoyle without feeling instantly sick, whereas the 5-series is arguably the best and most beautiful 4-door saloon in existence.

So, no, even in Europe it's not that easy. If you want a 4-series, but BMW does something to upset you, what are you going to buy instead? There aren't many coupés on the market that offer the same beauty, elegance, finesse, power, build quality, feeling, all in one package. Maybe the Jaguar F-Type, but that's not as pretty (to me, at least). Or maybe a Mercedes C-class coupé. And that's about it. Or, you could do what I did, and get a Mustang. 😁
 
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Hack

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There are some crappy BMWs, to be sure, but also some that are absolute kings in their class.

Personally, I don't really see Porsche as a direct competitor to BMW. For one, proper Porsches are insanely expensive (not that equivalent BMWs are cheap, but still...). Then, proper Porsches are just variations on the same theme; they're all basically the same car. If you happen not to like the squashed Beetle design, or all the peculiarities that come with an engine placed in the back, you're out of luck.
I'm saying "proper Porsches" because Porsche does have its share of crappy models as well. OK, maybe not crappy per se, since I'm sure they are technical masterpieces, but uglier than a mud fence. I mean, I might consider a 911 instead of an M4, but a Panamera instead of a 5-series? No way in hell. I can't even look at that hideous gargoyle without feeling instantly sick, whereas the 5-series is arguably the best and most beautiful 4-door saloon in existence.

So, no, even in Europe it's not that easy. If you want a 4-series, but BMW does something to upset you, what are you going to buy instead? There aren't many coupés on the market that offer the same beauty, elegance, finesse, power, build quality, feeling, all in one package. Maybe the Jaguar F-Type, but that's not as pretty (to me, at least). Or maybe a Mercedes C-class coupé. And that's about it. Or, you could do what I did, and get a Mustang. 😁
I'm sure you are 100% correct. The large BMWs might be better than Mercedes, VW and Audi, etc. I'm mostly interested in small sporty cars like the M3 used to be. I've heard the new M2 is going to be gaining a bunch of weight, so that doesn't appeal to me as much as it used to either. I used to own a 944 that I thought was excellent. I've never purchased a BMW. I was looking at a ~2004 M3 a few years ago, but the potential problems and repair costs discouraged me.

I'm surprised that Porsches are expensive even in Europe. To me they are a lot better looking than BMWs. More sporty, less boxy. But the box is definitely an efficient shape if you want a vehicle to carry a lot of people.
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