Nevermind

[drummerboy]

Was asking how to decrease understeer. Best option for me is going to be not going into the corner so hot Thanks honeybadger.

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[fatbillybob]

Square up tires. Air pressures. More effort but change ride height. Can be driver trying too hard late braking high entry speed overloads tires. More trail braking transition to left foot braking from heel/toe.

 

[honeybadger]

Do you have video? Would be helpful to determine if drive induced or car. The car is pretty neutral from the factory.

 

[sigintel]

Pictures of your front and rear tires so we can see the wear patterns? Little bits of wavy texture all across, or shoulders look like steel belts? Cracked tread blocks?

Date codes on all four tires
Brand and model of tires
hot pressures
cold pressures
alignment settings?

Did you meet up any of the local most experienced camaro and mustang instructors?

Post back up in track track/road course thread?

You should be able to get yourself into trouble with rotation just on correct setup and fresh tires.

There is a ton to learn that takes time to develop an assometer calibration. Its possibly one of the funnest aspects of tracking a car; that is learning how to evaluate objective and subjective changes and develop correlations. Don't let frustration get to you, its like anticipation that as you start figuring how to dial things in the way you like, it becomes that much more rewarding.

 

[NightmareMoon]

Yeah, what tires are you on and current alignment settings?

usually square tires and a good alignment get the job done. An R rear swaybar could be an option (Stano Performance makes a mild adjustable rear bar too).

 

[Tank]

Was asking how to decrease understeer. Best option for me is going to be not going into the corner so hot Thanks honeybadger.

“Liked” for the Title. I’m guessing it not the original

 

[ShatterPoints]

Was asking how to decrease understeer. Best option for me is going to be not going into the corner so hot Thanks honeybadger.

You should also know that the 350 has terminal understeer. Meaning if it were neutrally balanced it would tend toward understeer near the apex. 911's for instance exhibit this because all of the weight is at the rear. As soon as you apply any sort of power you have understeer. The 350 is a odd duck to me, but it appears to want to rotate at low speeds (oversteer) and has slight to moderate highspeed understeer (something you debatably want) While I am no pro driver, my advise is to try to work on your ability to sense the weight transfer, focus on smooth steering, and learn your cornering speeds.

 

[honeybadger]

You should also know that the 350 has terminal understeer. Meaning if it were neutrally balanced it would tend toward understeer near the apex. 911's for instance exhibit this because all of the weight is at the rear. As soon as you apply any sort of power you have understeer. The 350 is a odd duck to me, but it appears to want to rotate at low speeds (oversteer) and has slight to moderate highspeed understeer (something you debatably want) While I am no pro driver, my advise is to try to work on your ability to sense the weight transfer, focus on smooth steering, and learn your cornering speeds.

Not sure I'd call it terminal. It's definitely not playfully neutral, but it does drive more like an optimally setup race car than most cars--which is a good thing.

Talk to any professional racer-they have more fun driving a looser car, but will choose a tighter car on race day. It's safer and typically consistently faster.

 

[drummerboy]

I identified 2 problems in the alignment: not enough front camber and way too much rear toe in. The combo of those things were certainly not helping me to get the car to rotate, I just don't know to what extent.

-2.4 front camber left me with not much going on inside, and a lot of use on the outside shoulder.

0.71" rear toe in. :(

 

[drummerboy]

I also don't know why the understeer would necessarily be terminal... more weight on the outside drive wheel would decrease cross, and wouldn't bigger rear springs or a bigger rear bar accomplish that? Forgive me, my setup experience is with circle tracking.

 

[ShatterPoints]

Not sure I'd call it terminal. It's definitely not playfully neutral, but it does drive more like an optimally setup race car than most cars--which is a good thing.

Talk to any professional racer-they have more fun driving a looser car, but will choose a tighter car on race day. It's safer and typically consistently faster.

"Terminal handling balance is a function of front/rear relative roll resistance (suspension stiffness), front/rear weight distribution, and front/rear tire traction. A front-heavy vehicle with low rear roll stiffness (from soft springing and/or undersized or nonexistent rear anti-roll bars) will have a tendency to terminal understeer: its front tires, being more heavily loaded even in the static condition, will reach the limits of their adhesion before the rear tires, and thus will develop larger slip angles. Front-wheel drive cars are also prone to understeer because not only are they usually front-heavy, transmitting power through the front wheels also reduces their grip available for cornering. This often leads to a "shuddering" action in the front wheels which can be felt in the car as grip is suddenly being changed from planting the engines power on the road and steering. This is why rear wheel drive cars tend to handle better as the rear wheels main job is to handle the engines torque and the front wheels to steer.

Although understeer and oversteer can each cause a loss of control, many automakers design their vehicles for terminal understeer in the belief that it is easier for the average driver to control than terminal oversteer. Unlike terminal oversteer, which often requires several steering corrections, understeer can often be reduced simply by reducing speed. A slight danger in some cars which traditionally understeer is actually sudden oversteer. So for example if a car is driving hard and understeering, the driver maybe tempted to take his foot off the accelerator (increasing steering effectiveness of the front wheels as there is no engine torque to deal with) causing the car to snap oversteer and spin, often without warning. "

https://wikicars.org/en/Understeer#:~:text="Terminal understeer" refers to a,and front/rear tire traction.

I would argue that the 350 does have terminal understeer as is by design. With that knowledge you can make better informed changes to the suspension to change the handling balance. However know that the car is configured for understeer and a single change does not change the balance in every area of the corner. Spring->Damper->Roll bar, in that order needs to be addressed imo. Else you will be compromising performance in one area to improve another vs a complete behavioral modification.

**edit** I agree with what you said about race drivers wanting a tighter car, which is why I mentioned highspeed understeer (tight) is debatably something you want in a car.

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