NA build hp potential?

[UglyMutt]

Thanks for all the responses and pointers to other useful threads. I really like the idea of a NA build but it would need to be economical too. I don't see myself dipping into heads and cams only to have more $$ into this than I could have gone the FI rout and net more power. I know these threads always end up in saying the only limit is how much money you want to spend but that’s not what I’m after as I do have a budget that needs to be justified a bit. The one thing I have learned from the past is its way cheaper to know what your goal is and work towards it rather than redo things along the way because you change the goal or approach in getting there.

The goal of the car is more road course and street DD and not a ¼ mile hero so I wanted to stay away from SC for heat soak issues but I haven’t looked into how bad that really is with the newer twin screws. Power mods won’t happen until this summer so I have some time to read up and get my suspension working a little better.

Thanks for the info, if anyone has more to add I’m all ears

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[shadowsong6]

Thanks for all the responses and pointers to other useful threads. I really like the idea of a NA build but it would need to be economical too. I don't see myself dipping into heads and cams only to have more $$ into this than I could have gone the FI rout and net more power. I know these threads always end up in saying the only limit is how much money you want to spend but that’s not what I’m after as I do have a budget that needs to be justified a bit. The one thing I have learned from the past is its way cheaper to know what your goal is and work towards it rather than redo things along the way because you change the goal or approach in getting there.

The goal of the car is more road course and street DD and not a ¼ mile hero so I wanted to stay away from SC for heat soak issues but I haven’t looked into how bad that really is with the newer twin screws. Power mods won’t happen until this summer so I have some time to read up and get my suspension working a little better.

Thanks for the info, if anyone has more to add I’m all ears

If you're not looking to dip into heads and cams, your best bet is going to be GT350 manifold and TB, plus a nice set of long tubes and a flex fuel tune (if e85 is available to you) I could see that combination throwing down 470ish wheel all day.

 

[pinero61]

Sounds like a centri would be a good option for you. Cheap, powerful, and no heat soak with minimal parasitic loss.

JDM, specs on the CJ build?

 

[UglyMutt]

^ This is more what I was thinking. E85 is easy to get for me. Im hoping Steeda will come out with a CAI for the GT350 intake, im just not really a fan of JLT.

I think I may be keeping cats on this car and In not sure how much that's going to hurt me. We don't have emissions checks in MN but my 04 GT had a O/R H pipe and I got to hate the stink of it when I was sitting in traffic with just the wrong breeze.

 

[Nick@JDM]

Sounds like a centri would be a good option for you. Cheap, powerful, and no heat soak with minimal parasitic loss.

JDM, specs on the CJ build?

Well the car competes in the NHRA so I can't be too specific...

The block is a sleeved big bore build similar to what Livernoise does. The heads are Boss 302 heads with a competition valve job. The cams are "big" designed by us and made by Comp Cams. The cams are locked out and degreed so no TIVCT with this motor. It has pretty high compression and runs on VP C25 fuel.

It runs one of the original 3D printed CJ manifolds and Watson Racing's tube with the Ford Racing 123mm MAF housings.

The trans is a C3 or basically Ford's version of the Turbo 400. It has a 9" rear with aggressive gearing.

This car makes a lot of power for an N/A small block but the real trick here is in the rest of the drive line gearing (rear and trans) to make the most out of the power at hand since this car is not as lightweight as many think (over 3200lbs)

 

[BCeagle08]

i feel like youre miss understanding the dyno sheet and what it means. it loses no power anywhere and only gains tremendously the dyno sheet we looked at didnt even go up to 7500 rpm... it stopped at like 72-7300. this IM would probably be the single biggest power NA mod for anyone wanting to make the best ET down the 1/4 the fact that it doesn't just fall off is huge and it makes so much more usable power. also as far as cost 1k for this plus 200 for the TB is the best bang for buck part i have seen..

How am I misreading this?

No real gains until about 7,000 rpm which is the redline for a stock GT. The extra usable power up to the stock redline is negligible and certainly not worth the cash.

Obviously the stock intake is not designed for going above 7,000 rpm so it's no surprise that the GT350 intake flows better up there. Are we assuming now that this engine is safe to run at 7,500 rpm? I think that's a pretty big assumption, but let's do it for the sake of this conversation.

How much time does this car spend between 7,000 and 7,500 RPM? Very very little. This car loses 2,000 rpm between shifts from 1-2 and 2-3. That means you are spending 1/4 of your time in the new and improved power band.

I'm not debating that the intake flows better above 7,000 RPM. I'm debating whether it's worth it and whether it's something that everyone should plan on including in their NA build. If you're going NA, chances are you are doing so because you want a safer build than forced induction. I don't see how spinning the engine to 7,500 rpm can be considered safe. I'd rather keep the stock redline and introduce a power adder than spin to 7,500 rpm. I'd get more power and be safer.

 

[pinero61]

A good bit of people rev these engines to 8k in NA form, and most tuners turn completely stock ones up to 7500 with no issues. A higher flowing intake helps a good bit if you race the car. Will headers net more power? yes.

 

[pinero61]

Well the car competes in the NHRA so I can't be too specific...

The block is a sleeved big bore build similar to what Livernoise does. The heads are Boss 302 heads with a competition valve job. The cams are "big" designed by us and made by Comp Cams. The cams are locked out and degreed so no TIVCT with this motor. It has pretty high compression and runs on VP C25 fuel.

It runs one of the original 3D printed CJ manifolds and Watson Racing's tube with the Ford Racing 123mm MAF housings.

The trans is a C3 or basically Ford's version of the Turbo 400. It has a 9" rear with aggressive gearing.

This car makes a lot of power for an N/A small block but the real trick here is in the rest of the drive line gearing (rear and trans) to make the most out of the power at hand since this car is not as lightweight as many think (over 3200lbs)

Do you offer porting on the 15+ heads? I'm planning on building my top end shortly.

 

[UglyMutt]

Sounds like a centri would be a good option for you. Cheap, powerful, and no heat soak with minimal parasitic loss.

JDM, specs on the CJ build?

Last I checked some of these, vortech for sure, will grenade themselves in sub freezing temps. I'm in Minnesota so this just isn't an option for me. Even if it wasn't my DD we get cold nights all spring and fall.

 

[Moddiction]

How am I misreading this?
No real gains until about 7,000 rpm which is the redline for a stock GT. The extra usable power up to the stock redline is negligible and certainly not worth the cash.

Obviously the stock intake is not designed for going above 7,000 rpm so it's no surprise that the GT350 intake flows better up there. Are we assuming now that this engine is safe to run at 7,500 rpm? I think that's a pretty big assumption, but let's do it for the sake of this conversation.

How much time does this car spend between 7,000 and 7,500 RPM? Very very little. This car loses 2,000 rpm between shifts from 1-2 and 2-3. That means you are spending 1/4 of your time in the new and improved power band.

I'm not debating that the intake flows better above 7,000 RPM. I'm debating whether it's worth it and whether it's something that everyone should plan on including in their NA build. If you're going NA, chances are you are doing so because you want a safer build than forced induction. I don't see how spinning the engine to 7,500 rpm can be considered safe. I'd rather keep the stock redline and introduce a power adder than spin to 7,500 rpm. I'd get more power and be safer.

It's making big gains up top which would make a very nice difference in performance. You can very safely rev these to 7500 all day long. Many tune them to rev to 8000 without any issues.

By 6500 rpms it is already making 10whp gains compared to stock IM. By 6800 or so probably about 15whp by 7k it's making 35-40whp gains. Of course above that it is making HUGE gains compared to stock IM. Revving it to 7800 rpms or so will make the car without a doubt faster and very noticeable. $1200 or so for IM and TB. Thats less than most catted long tube headers. Once adding headers I bet the gains with IM will be even greater.

 

[Higgs Boson]

How am I misreading this?

No real gains until about 7,000 rpm which is the redline for a stock GT. The extra usable power up to the stock redline is negligible and certainly not worth the cash.

Obviously the stock intake is not designed for going above 7,000 rpm so it's no surprise that the GT350 intake flows better up there. Are we assuming now that this engine is safe to run at 7,500 rpm? I think that's a pretty big assumption, but let's do it for the sake of this conversation.

How much time does this car spend between 7,000 and 7,500 RPM? Very very little. This car loses 2,000 rpm between shifts from 1-2 and 2-3. That means you are spending 1/4 of your time in the new and improved power band.

I'm not debating that the intake flows better above 7,000 RPM. I'm debating whether it's worth it and whether it's something that everyone should plan on including in their NA build. If you're going NA, chances are you are doing so because you want a safer build than forced induction. I don't see how spinning the engine to 7,500 rpm can be considered safe. I'd rather keep the stock redline and introduce a power adder than spin to 7,500 rpm. I'd get more power and be safer.

But a Boss or Cobra Jet that loses power everywhere except for a little gain on the high end is worth it? Or no intake is worth it?

Of everything available so far, the GT350 intake is the only one with the high end gains without the low end loss....not to mention no BS engine lowering, strut bar removing, or hood cutting.

If you're going to do an intake, which I am not saying everyone should, it's a no brainer.

 

[mustangflanagan]

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[UglyMutt]

Has anyone done a GT350 intake on E85 yet? I assume you would need injectors at that point and maybe a fuel pump voltage booster?

 

[shadowsong6]

Has anyone done a GT350 intake on E85 yet? I assume you would need injectors at that point and maybe a fuel pump voltage booster?

Not yet, to my knowledge there's really only one guy with a gt350 intake on his car right now period, but more are coming. As for cats (per your earlier post) you can always get a nice set of kooks longtubes with green cats... the cats shouldn't cost you that much power.

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