Sponsored

My GT500 tried to kill me - software defect!

fishpick

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 28, 2020
Threads
32
Messages
348
Reaction score
458
Location
Part of NY w/ high taxes to support the other part
Vehicle(s)
0 mustangs owned currently
No - not the traction control... Not Launch control. No - there's not a defect in the DCT that made a shift go crazy wrong... But the car DID try to kill me and my wife... and it's a legit bug Ford should really solve - all it takes is one line of code and it's universal - as a buddy in his 2020 Yellow Label Salleen had the SAME issue at the exact same time... so let me tell you a story...

(this is a bit of creative writing - if you don’t understand what that is, you should just skip to the Epilogue)

It all started on a warm summer morning. A group of fellow mustang enthusiasts gathered and drove together to a Pirate Festival Car show (you can't make this $#!t up). While at the show I enjoyed the kangraoos, the pirates, the cannon fire (again - $#!t not made up), the carnival (ever notice how carnies are all exactly the same - no matter where you go - odd genetic predisposition to being a carnie, I guess)... It was a nice summer day with good friends and lots of interesting cars to look at. I don't go for the trophies - I go to hang out because at a car show I can't work... and that alone makes them medicinal in practice for me. Anyhow I digress... distracted by the memory of the carnies...
This was a full spectrum show too - from model T's all the way up to my 2021 GT500 and a brand new fugly fat @$$end C8... Lots of amazing mods too - enthusiasts with some incredible paint jobs, beautiful restorations, monster trucks with power cables to their amps bigger than a 220 circuit in your house... all sorts of cool things. I'm a "car guy" - so even if it's not my thing - I appreciate the passion and energy others expend.
It was partly the jovial day that made what happened next so unexpected... at the conclusion of the awards, like so many other shows you have attended, everyone returned to their cars and departed for home... I twas here, as we were pulling out - the biggest monster truck with the most amps and hugest subwoofers pulled out between me and my buddy in the Saleen... as unsuspecting and innocent as that seemed - it was here that the horror began...
It started as a low droning sound... Like the harmonics between loud exhausts... but it kept building. Soon - my wife is looking at me and I can barely hear her talking... "what's going on" I make out... I yell back - someone has some really loud loud exhaust. The line of cars moves a little - we roll forward and the sound eases a bit.
"Holy shit that was loud" she says.
"Yeah - I dunno who's car that was" I reply... but I no more than finish what I was saying and the droning sound begins to raise up again... this time exceeding the level last time. The sound waves are punishing - looking in my rear view mirror - there's no image to be made out - everything is a blur from the vibrations. You can feel the sound waves in your chest. You head feels like it's being buffeted by a strong wind - but the air is perfectly still... My wife cried out... but all I could do was white knuckle the steering wheel and focus on the car ahead. To myself I thought - "this must be how they train fighter pilots - keep your focus no matter what". I feared the subsonic pulsations were weakening my bladder.
Frantically I started toggling the exhaust on the dash - what was going on - why was the car so loud... I'd look at the exhaust setting - "Quiet" - look at the mirror "blur" - look at my wife yelling things that sounds like she was speaking through a running fan and suing words I dare not write here for fear of moderation ban hammers... The cars rolled forward - and for a brief moment - the sound receded to a fraction of what it was and the mirror image returned... as I focused on the lines coalescing, and it was then that I saw the golliath of the monster truck behind us with its golden bowtie in the grill... every inch it came closer - the sound was returning to the cabin of the car... the image in the mirror becoming more violently distorted, shaking away reality and vibrating my senses numb...
My wife cried out in anguish "NOOOO! Why is it happening again?!"
I don't know my love... but we lived a good life together, was a thought passing through the turbulent mindspace. But it was then too - as the ripples of gray matter bumped into eachother I began to understand what was hamming my consciousness and liquefying my organs... it was that god damn Chevy truck... The cars moved - we were next... the oscillating sound waves had ebbed for a moment and now were crashing back for their finale as that rolling GM pile of amps and subwoffers descended upon us... Before the sound-waves reduced my awareness to only what was in front of me again, the young children along the exit were screaming "light them up", looking for the omnipresent Mustang crash video opportunity... and before I jammed on the throttle, not for their pleasure, but to escape the harbinger of sonic doom, I shouted through the waves compressing my lungs - not to the children along the street - but to my wife nearly in tears "It's that #uc&ing truck - it's freaking out the noise suppression in our car!"

I will always wonder about that that warm day in mid July, along the shores of Lake Ontario in the mids of modern pirates, is this where it will be remembered to have begun... where the technology overlords attempted to extinguish 2 fragile lives in the cabin of their car.

Epilogue
There are several articles on the interwebs about how much work and engineering Ford put into the software to make the active noise cancellation in the cabin allow for such a loud exhaust with no drone and TBH it works amazing. What I think the software engineers FORGOT to do (as a guy who writes code - I too have been guilty of this) - was add the notion of an upper limit in the feedback loop. The notion that the system keeps hearing "something" and trying harder and harder to cancel it, is absolutely what we encountered. There's no off button, there's no way to "stop" it - in this situation there was nowhere to pull over and shut off the car... and the massive subwoffer in our trunk just kept fighting harder and harder to cancel some sound only it could hear. Absolutely brutal. One line of code is all Ford needs to prevent this - a max limit in the feedback loop escalation... And - the next day - when talking with my buddy in the 2020 Saleen - he too had the same experience.
Sponsored

 
Last edited:

Jmeo

You said member ;)
Joined
May 28, 2014
Threads
252
Messages
8,773
Reaction score
9,886
Location
Massachusetts
First Name
Jaime
Vehicle(s)
2020 GT500, 2023 F150 Raptor
Vehicle Showcase
2
Wow, I never would have thought of that happening. Crazy.

Thanks for the twilight zone episode buddy, it was great.
 

marklboris

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 16, 2019
Threads
3
Messages
670
Reaction score
1,019
Location
Sonora, CA
First Name
Mark
Vehicle(s)
______ '20 Shelby GT500 FPB '24 Mach-E GTP GGM
Vehicle Showcase
1
I'm surprised the OEM sub in the trunk could play loud when activated by the ANC system because it certainly does'nt play bass that loud during normal audio listening. Hence the reason I had to upgrade the subwoofer system in that car.

There are three ways the ANC system can be disabled. 1. Turn off engine. 2. Hood is ajar. 3. Either door is ajar. While you obviously cannot turn off the engine while driving, you could have pulled the hood release (hood would not fully open anyway without pushing in the hood pins) or cracked one of the doors open a bit. Also, the amount of ANC is determined by the accelerator pedal position.
 
Last edited:

Sponsored

OP
OP
fishpick

fishpick

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 28, 2020
Threads
32
Messages
348
Reaction score
458
Location
Part of NY w/ high taxes to support the other part
Vehicle(s)
0 mustangs owned currently
I'm surprised the sub in the trunk could play loud when activated by the ANC system because it certainly does'nt play bass that loud during normal audio listening. Hence the reason I had to upgrade the subwoofer system in that car.

There are three ways the ANC system can be disabled. 1. Turn off engine. 2. Hood is ajar. 3. Either door is ajar. While you obviously cannot turn off the engine while driving, you could have pulled the hood release (hood would not fully open anyway without pushing in the hood pins) or cracked one of the doors open a bit.. Also, the amount of ANC is determined by the accelerator pedal position.
1) we were at a dead stop - there was no movement of the accelerator pedal - it DID NOT MATTER
2) if I had known opening a door would have stopped it - I would have in a second

The ONLY thing that lessened the feedback loop was distance from the truck full of subs.

And - 100% this is what was going on as the 2020 GT had the exact same experience - so it's an n of 2 in the statistical column at the same time in the same palce... and it was us - truck - second victim... and his severity was also dictated by proximity to the truck.

All the story telling aside above - it was literally so loud the mirror was unusable and you felt like you were swimming in the air - like that kind of intensity.

Based on your assertions of how it's "supposed to work" and how the system clearly "was working" in the presence of whatever frequency that truck was putting out... that's why I called it a "bug"
 

CJJon

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 18, 2020
Threads
34
Messages
3,508
Reaction score
3,788
Location
Port Orchard
Vehicle(s)
2020 Mustang GT/CS Convertible - Race Red
I've been too close to large rocket motors at test firings. It's amazing how visceral the sound can be. Disorienting to be sure.
 

br_an

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 28, 2019
Threads
23
Messages
1,314
Reaction score
1,750
Location
Boise, Idaho
First Name
Bran
Vehicle(s)
2016 Shelby GT350, 2020 Ford F150
I liked the story. For a moment I was transported to Pirate Fest, arrg! :crackup:
 

marklboris

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 16, 2019
Threads
3
Messages
670
Reaction score
1,019
Location
Sonora, CA
First Name
Mark
Vehicle(s)
______ '20 Shelby GT500 FPB '24 Mach-E GTP GGM
Vehicle Showcase
1
1) we were at a dead stop - there was no movement of the accelerator pedal - it DID NOT MATTER
2) if I had known opening a door would have stopped it - I would have in a second

The ONLY thing that lessened the feedback loop was distance from the truck full of subs.

And - 100% this is what was going on as the 2020 GT had the exact same experience - so it's an n of 2 in the statistical column at the same time in the same palce... and it was us - truck - second victim... and his severity was also dictated by proximity to the truck.

All the story telling aside above - it was literally so loud the mirror was unusable and you felt like you were swimming in the air - like that kind of intensity.

Based on your assertions of how it's "supposed to work" and how the system clearly "was working" in the presence of whatever frequency that truck was putting out... that's why I called it a "bug"
I never doubted that this happened and I'm sure it was deafening loud and obnoxious. I was only trying to give a suggestion of what to do in case it ever happened again.
 

Sponsored

shogun32

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 8, 2019
Threads
92
Messages
16,223
Reaction score
14,019
Location
Northern VA
First Name
Matt
Vehicle(s)
'19 GT/PP, '23 GB Mach1, '12 Audi S5 (v8+6mt)
Vehicle Showcase
2
One line of code is all Ford needs to prevent this - a max limit in the feedback loop escalation... And - the next day - when talking with my buddy in the 2020 Saleen - he too had the same experience.
So apparently Ford thought it was a good idea to copy-paste code from the Boeing 737 Max. At least in the Ford all 4 wheels are generally in contact with the road so the vertical component is limit-bound...
 
OP
OP
fishpick

fishpick

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 28, 2020
Threads
32
Messages
348
Reaction score
458
Location
Part of NY w/ high taxes to support the other part
Vehicle(s)
0 mustangs owned currently
I never doubted that this happened and I'm sure it was deafening loud and obnoxious. I was only trying to give a suggestion of what to do in case it ever happened again.
Didn't meant to come across like that - believe me - I may just drive around with the hood unlatched or the door open :wink:
Appreciate the "fix" should it ever happen again!
 

LSchicago

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 11, 2018
Threads
93
Messages
2,914
Reaction score
2,544
Location
Illinois
First Name
Lloyd
Vehicle(s)
2018 Mustang GT/A 301A 5.0

libtrucker

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 7, 2021
Threads
9
Messages
106
Reaction score
144
Location
Ft Myers, FL
First Name
Jim
Vehicle(s)
2020 Mustang GT Premium PP, 1995 F-250 XL
I would've pulled over with my middle finger out the window. That's annoying, no matter how great of a system it is.
 

Cobra Jet

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 12, 2015
Threads
771
Messages
17,574
Reaction score
20,001
Location
NJ
Vehicle(s)
2018 EB Prem. w/PP and 94 Mustang Cobra
No offense at all....
Future - straight and to the point with facts, you'll retain the audience. The "story line" although interesting, wasn't really necessary from a Tech standpoint, it just took the reader off in a totally different direction and away from the actual issue..

--

There's a few threads in the audio sub-forum on here where it's been stated that the SYNC system will need to be adjusted using Forscan if/when upgrading components such as subwoofers, etc. It's also been stated that Ford's chosen EQ levels aren't good for bass roll off. The other issue is the rear mic at the rear of the headliner. As you found out and experienced, the factory coding caused the conflict with digital sound cancelation.

Early on when the S550 was introduced, there's many threads where new owners experienced the same but the "fix" at the time was to reach up over into the rear of the headliner and disconnect the rear mic connector. By doing so, it eliminates the "reverb" from subs or exhaust that can be picked up. Many reported that after doing so, the problem subsided. Now there are also folks who said that by going one step further and disabling by Forscan and flattening the factory EQ curves makes it even better.

Hopefully the above helps you and your friend.
Sponsored

 
Last edited:
 








Top