Moving the Goalposts

[sublime1996525]

Oh and this thread is awesome! lol

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[5.0 435]

Who the hell launch’s a car @ 1500 rpm for a 1/4 mile run ? Maybe a 502 ram jet crate motor with 410 gears. Haha

 

[AirBusPilot]

It's hard to say as what you see could just be an error in the testing.

They hadn’t even hit the throttle at that low rpm.

 

[TheDeadCow]

Good idea. Done.

[ame="[MEDIA=youtube]zYt0WbDjJ4E[/MEDIA]"]

 

[Hack]

You’re joking..right?

Not at all.

[MENTION=12069]Hack[/MENTION]. ^^^^Not sure if serious.

Completely serious.

It's hard to say as what you see could just be an error in the testing.

So you are going to choose to believe that area of the graph is an error? Do you believe the rest of the graph? Why?

Who the hell launch’s a car @ 1500 rpm for a 1/4 mile run ? Maybe a 502 ram jet crate motor with 410 gears. Haha

Exactly true.

They hadn’t even hit the throttle at that low rpm.

If you are serious, you don't understand how a dyno test works.

 

[AirBusPilot]

Not at all.


Completely serious.


So you are going to choose to believe that area of the graph is an error? Do you believe the rest of the graph? Why?

Exactly true.

If you are serious, you don't understand how a dyno test works.

And if you’re serious, I question your ability to read a simple graph and understand what you’re looking at.

 

[Zombo]

That area of the graph does look suspicious - or else you would have to believe a GT350R make 75 lb-ft more than a GT350 @ 1250RPM, which is doubtful.

 

[AirBusPilot]

That area of the graph does look suspicious - or else you would have to believe a GT350R make 75 lb-ft more than a GT350 @ 1250RPM, which is doubtful.

Not only that, you’d have to believe an LS7 gains 275 lb/ft of torque in just 200 rpm.

 

[Hack]

And if you’re serious, I question your ability to read a simple graph and understand what you’re looking at.

Please go ahead and ask a specific question or make a specific statement that will point out my error(s).

Not only that, you’d have to believe an LS7 gains 275 lb/ft of torque in just 200 rpm.

Can you explain why you don't believe that an ICE has low torque output at low RPM and why you think an ICE won't gain torque output rapidly as RPM increases?

 

[AirBusPilot]

Please go ahead and ask a specific question or make a specific statement that will point out my error(s).



Can you explain why you don't believe that an ICE has low torque output at low RPM and why you think an ICE won't gain torque output rapidly as RPM increases?

I already pointed out your “error”. I have no further questions.

 

[Hack]

I already pointed out your “error”. I have no further questions.

OK. Since I'm not good at letting things go I will say this. Look at the graph that has the GT350/R power production and the LS7 power production on it. Take the GT350/R curve and move it to the left 750 RPM. Note that the two curves will pretty much lie right on top of each other through the entire RPM range until the LS7 falls on its face at higher RPMs.

Now, doesn't the earlier statement saying that the Voodoo has a very peaky power curve seem silly to you? Does that help you understand how the dyno graph can be used to compare the power bands of the two engines?

 

[AirBusPilot]

OK. Since I'm not good at letting things go I will say this. Look at the graph that has the GT350/R power production and the LS7 power production on it. Take the GT350/R curve and move it to the left 750 RPM. Note that the two curves will pretty much lie right on top of each other through the entire RPM range until the LS7 falls on its face at higher RPMs.

Now, doesn't the earlier statement saying that the Voodoo has a very peaky power curve seem silly to you? Does that help you understand how the dyno graph can be used to compare the power bands of the two engines?

Two points:

1. Notice how the torque curve of the voodoo jumps up significantly at 3500 rpm? That’s when the engine comes alive. Notice the LS7 curve is a smooth, near flat arc. That’s a wide versus narrow powerband.

2. The LS7 has superior torque at every single point until it hits redline. Shift the voodoo to the left, and the voodoo torque curve still stays underneath it.

Maybe the problem we’re having is our different definitions of what a narrow powerband means. Fine. It’s not worth the argument.:cheers:

 

[Hack]

Two points:

1. Notice how the torque curve of the voodoo jumps up significantly at 3500 rpm? That’s when the engine comes alive. Notice the LS7 curve is a smooth, near flat arc. That’s a wide versus narrow powerband.

2. The LS7 has superior torque at every single point until it hits redline. Shift the voodoo to the left, and the voodoo torque curve still stays underneath it.

Maybe the problem we’re having is our different definitions of what a narrow powerband means. Fine. It’s not worth the argument.:cheers:

I'm fine with you not arguing.

I agree the Voodoo torque and power jump at 3500. If you overlay the curves by shifting the Voodoo power curve 750 rpm over the hump in the Voodoo power curve exceeds the power of the LS7 in that area (2,750 rpm for the LS7). I agree that the hump along with very steep gearing gives an impression that the Voodoo takes a while to "come alive". And a smaller NA engine typically needs to rev to make more power than the larger NA engine. I still maintain that the dyno curves show direct evidence that the Voodoo has a wider power band than the LS7.

Torque at the engine is meaningless because it can be multiplied many times over by gearing. Torque at the tires is what accelerates a vehicle. Are you going to use torque curves as an evidence of what a powerband looks like rather than using the power curves? :headbonk:

 

[AirBusPilot]

I'm fine with you not arguing.

I agree the Voodoo torque and power jump at 3500. If you overlay the curves by shifting the Voodoo power curve 750 rpm over the hump in the Voodoo power curve exceeds the power of the LS7 in that area (2,750 rpm for the LS7). I agree that the hump along with very steep gearing gives an impression that the Voodoo takes a while to "come alive". And a smaller NA engine typically needs to rev to make more power than the larger NA engine. I still maintain that the dyno curves show direct evidence that the Voodoo has a wider power band than the LS7.

Torque at the engine is meaningless because it can be multiplied many times over by gearing. Torque at the tires is what accelerates a vehicle. Are you going to use torque curves as an evidence of what a powerband looks like rather than using the power curves? :headbonk:

Look, you can’t move whatever curve you want to the left, that’s not how it is in reality, and it’s a meaningless comparison. Move it way far to the left and it wold show several hundred HP more, but what would it prove? Nothing. In order to be a valid comparison, it has to be an A to A.

And, I’m just going to have to disagree the voodoo has a wider powerband, it’s just not true and all dynos prove it. It doesn’t mean the LS7 is necessarily better.

 

[oldbmwfan]

Seems like a lot of ink has been spilled when someone could have just said "total area under the curve matters."

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