More stereo upgrade questions!

[Evolvd]

It sounds fabulous but I'm hesitant. Spring is here and I'm ready to ride.

I'm looking for a quick easy improvement

Call Sounds Good Stereo and ask them if their 6.5” adapters will fit the speakers you want. I have JL Audio C7-650 in my car using those spacers and they fit perfect. They also make 3.5” adapters that I also use for my C7-350

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[RagmopInKona]

No, it's not... hearing loss rarely is below 8-10kHz and most harshness comes from large peaks in the 3-7kHz area and need to be tamed down with a DSP.
With a DSP you can make a metal dome tweeter sound like a softdome tweeter f.e.
There are many good tuned systems with Focal speakers that are considered to be harsh and forward in your face sounding absolutely mellow. It all depends on the tuning and is one of the reasons i would always advice to incorporate a DSP in every system.
If budget is constraint even a smaller DSP amplifier would be way better than any passive system without any equalization available.

And i'm not talking about equalization available in most headunits, but basic 10 channel per driver EQ in the more budget friendly DSP options. This is the biggest asset you can have and could even make the stock speakers sound better than any aftermarket passive system.

I would even go so far and recommend to change the stock amp first for a new and capable DSP amplifier and stay with stock speakers if budget is limited.

And when u loose the highs 10-20 . The lower frequencies are louder than the highs .
I am not here to argue. But I will trust those I have seen at one of the best eye and ear hospitals on the east coast .
Maybe they are wrong , so I'll bow out now.

 

[Cathul]

Well, i have partial hearing loss above 10kHz, but still of there is a broad peak in the response between 3-8kHz the system sounds very harsh.
And despite having hearing loss I qualified for the EMMA sound quality Euro finals in Salzburg next month. So I think I know what I’m talking about.

 

[RagmopInKona]

I know what was i thinking . Doctors with 8 years or more of schooling and then top of their field, nah, what do they know. Good luck with the contest though .

 

[Cathul]

Don’t get me wrong, hearing loss, even partially is really serious, I know that from personal experience, but harshness and forward sounding in a car stereo is not located above 10kHz.
If a car audio system is harsh sounding in 99% of all cases it’s the region between 2 and 7kHz that is too hot. Above 10kHz is mostly the airy sound that some people love as it’s mostly harmonics that are located there.
If people have a good tune, but want it more mellow sounding the solution is not to lower above 10kHz, but put in a slight dip in the response centered around 3kHz with a wide bandwidth.
It’s just like it is.
Maybe ask your local tuners, if there are any, what the reason for harsh sounding car systems is:
My bet is that they’ll answer as i did.

You could even measure this like a lot of people already did. It‘s not that this is anything new. Just google Fletcher Monsoon Curve which is one of the explanations for this phenomenon.

 

[Evolvd]

I know what was i thinking . Doctors with 8 years or more of schooling and then top of their field, nah, what do they know. Good luck with the contest though .

The answer is easily Googled and even the cursory search says that most hearing loss naturally occurs in the higher frequencies as we age but 2000-8000hz is also more typically.

 

[Bassackwards]

After cruising around topless the first upgrade is going to be a sub!

 

[mike3105]

Crutchfield said that the tweeters do not come with a crossover but the component set does. They also said that the 6.5 won't fit but I think they are mistaken on that.

Found you here from the other thread!

I used a 12uf 250V 5% Polypropylene Capacitor and just soldered it inline. Works perfectly, fits in the a-pillar trim easily too. I got 12uF based on an online calculator targeting the specific cut-off for those tweeters.

 

[Bassackwards]

If I attempt to run a set of 2 way components off the factory amp am I going to have a dead spot in the midrange?

If the 6.5 location only has low frequency are the mids expected to come from the 3.5" that would be removed?

 

[Evolvd]

If I attempt to run a set of 2 way components off the factory amp am I going to have a dead spot in the midrange?

If the 6.5 location only has low frequency are the mids expected to come from the 3.5" that would be removed?

You’ll likely be missing some of the mid range where vocals are at. But the bigger worry is your 3.5” is wired in parallel with your tweeters so removing it will change the amps output to 4 ohms vs 8 and will likely cause your new tweeters to have more output and unbalance the system.

 

[StangTime]

If I attempt to run a set of 2 way components off the factory amp am I going to have a dead spot in the midrange?

If the 6.5 location only has low frequency are the mids expected to come from the 3.5" that would be removed?

That's correct. Lower door is low passed, midrange and tweeter are high passed and are wired in parallel. Additionally, the tweeter has a secondary high pass filter (6db/octave) consisting of a single inline capacitor.

To use the OEM amp, you would need to buy a 3-way speaker setup WITH a passive crossover. Use the passive crossover to run the new midrange and new tweeter as a 2-way setup with the 6.5" mid-bass running direct off the OEM amp. Do not use the factory tweeter connection as it is tied to the midrange wiring. Or simply use a coaxial midrange/tweeter combo in the upper door and whatever 6.5" you like for the mid-bass. Disconnect the factory tweeter and call it a day.

 

[Bassackwards]

I listened to a set of Alpine R series 2 way separates yesterday and they were dreamy!

I was hoping to integrate them without adding a completely new amp into the mix.

 

[Bassackwards]

Good advice right here.

Choose only one:
1. A-pillar tweeters only, no upper midrange in the door. Seal the hole behind the panel (I run this way) 2-way system.
2. A-pillar tweeters + upper midrange in the door (NOT a coaxial!) 3-way system.
3. Delete A-pillar tweeters, use coaxial upper midrange.

Go with whatever 6.5" mid-bass with fit in the door.

Note! If you plan to use an aftermarket tweeter, you must use a basic passive crossover to limit low frequency energy to the tweeter or you will fry the voice coil. Consult the spec sheets of the tweeter you plan to use.

The Hertz Mille 2-way kit has fantastic sound quality. Very deep bass if you mount the driver well. The 3-way is even better but complicates the install (requires the passive crossover) and you need to spend way more money to do it.

That's correct. Lower door is low passed, midrange and tweeter are high passed and are wired in parallel. Additionally, the tweeter has a secondary high pass filter (6db/octave) consisting of a single inline capacitor.

To use the OEM amp, you would need to buy a 3-way speaker setup WITH a passive crossover. Use the passive crossover to run the new midrange and new tweeter as a 2-way setup with the 6.5" mid-bass running direct off the OEM amp. Do not use the factory tweeter connection as it is tied to the midrange wiring. Or simply use a coaxial midrange/tweeter combo in the upper door and whatever 6.5" you like for the mid-bass. Disconnect the factory tweeter and call it a day.

Is the tweeter high pass filter attached to it? If I remove the tweeter will the filter go too? Is the Is there anything between the amp, midrange, and tweeter to interfere or is it just straight wire?

 

[StangTime]

Is the tweeter high pass filter attached to it? Is there anything between the amp, midrange, and tweeter to interfere are is it just straight wire?

The tweeter filter is attached to the tweeter body. If you unplug the tweeter, the filter stays on the tweeter. Straight wires from the OEM amp direct to the speakers with nothing in between, with the exception of the parallel connection of the midrange and tweeter. That is buried somewhere in the wire harness. Never did find it.
The OEM 9 speaker system is basically wired like a 2-way active system in that there are only 4 amplifier channels powering the front (dash speaker excluded).
Here is a system diagram:

 

[Bassackwards]

The tweeter filter is attached to the tweeter body. If you unplug the tweeter, the filter stays on the tweeter. Straight wires from the OEM amp direct to the speakers with nothing in between, with the exception of the parallel connection of the midrange and tweeter. That is buried somewhere in the wire harness. Never did find it.
The OEM 9 speaker system is basically wired like a 2-way active system in that there are only 4 amplifier channels powering the front (dash speaker excluded).
Here is a system diagram:

Another idea:

So I could remove the 3.5" speaker, tie the 6.5" wiring to the 3.5" in the door that would feed the tweeter and add a new 4 channel amp and a iDatalink HRN-AR-FO3 feeding LF, RF, LR, RR and ditch the factory amp? I saw some other diagrams that looked great but I didn't save it and now can't find it again.

I'd still run a separate amp for the sub if needed. If I can stay small and fit one into the existing location I'll be happier.

I did save the schematic with the Cat6 and the 9 wire cables, that is also a viable solution if I can find connectors.

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