Middle class income & new car prices

[zackmd1]

dorms that would do 4 start hotels proud

HA! You obviously haven't been to a college recently. My wife's freshman dorm was a 12x12 cinder block room with one window and being shared by two people. No AC (this is Maryland mind you so not temperate climate) and a steam pipe right above her bed for the radiator heat. Oh and she was paying the equivalent of $800 a month for this POS. (The college was getting $1600 total per month for this room).

Everyone qualifies for a government backed $7.5k loan which means the college upped their price by $7.5k as soon as that when into effect. Add to that other government backed loans and then private loans on top of that, plus the requirement from employers to have a minimum of a bachelor's degree, and you have the current college situation. Taking advantage of those that have little choice if they hope to have anything more then a minimum wage position outside of trades.

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[shogun32]

Now it could be the banks and the auto industry.

it'll be the nuclear implosion of the medical industry and the outrageous cartel behavior and billing fraud they've perpetuated for 40+ years. Their behavior is unquestionably ILLEGAL under 100 year old consumer protection and monopoly laws. They tried TWICE to get the supreme court to bless their illegal actions and were denied both times! If anybody ran their auto-repair shop, the gas station, their bakery, their personal care shop, their grocery store the way the medical industry behaves, they'd be serving prison sentences within 10 days.

Obama-care was a very successful bid to strip the population of wealth and deal it to themselves. Just like at the universities, hospital admin staff are grossly inflated in numbers and renumeration while care given is falling off the cliff. A couple weeks ago the Administration published a notice that everyone is going to have to publish their prices.

Go look at the Surgery Center of Omaha. Now compare what it'll cost you for a procedure assuming you can pry that info out of your local hospital. When it's vastly cheaper to fly to Japan or Korea or India, pay for the procedure with cash and 2 weeks for hotel to recovery than it is to get 'serviced' by your local hospital, there is something VERY VERY WRONG. You might say it's outright criminal. And you'd be right.

 

[Wylie C]

Yep. Developing and using more and more tech to meet tougher and tougher worldwide government regulations means more cost and higher prices for consumers. Who knew?
Yup, that's how GM lost 3 billion in a quarter and still turned a profit. All those 50 and 60 thousand dollar pickup trucks and suv's are really worth the money. They probably cost GM 10,000

 

[GregP27]

I paid cash for my 2109 GT Premium and added wheels, tires, and Daytona Stripes. So, no car payment. On the other hand, I saved a car payment every month for 12 years to do it, I still have the old pickup I bought and drove during that time.

That being said, cars are too expensive these days. The feds make American car makers meet increasingly stupid regulations. Now, they even offer driving lights that idiots leave on at night when there is no fog, making the bright beams superfluous. There is NO WAY of 5-liter V8 car that seats 2 people and a couple of bags of groceries should cost $48k! I foresee a time very soon when car sales will tank, relative to today's numbers, simply because nobody other than the affluent can afford them.

 

[shogun32]

I paid cash for my 2109 GT Premium

The world's governments still allow the filthy unwashed to spend money without being constantly tracked?
*grin*

 

[Ebm]

OP, between this thread and your other thread, I'm beginning to think you are trying to make yourself feel better about a bad purchase in your past. These seem like justification threads. No idea why you made basically the same thread twice.

Are you hiding something from us?

 

[Norm Peterson]

... A shift in society towards debt (piling it up) has happened, and I do think its generational, with us older consumers being the one's most likely to only pay cash for things we want and wondering why this lack of planning for the future seems to be getting much worse.

When you pay cash for more things, chances are you're more aware of the finite-ness of your budget. You either have enough money right now or you don't. Unlike living on a credit basis, where it's harder to keep an up-to-date mental track of all those things that you've been putting off for tomorrow's income to cover. Not impossible, mind you. Just harder.


Norm

 

[Count Drunkula]

Wel, I reckon never buy anything you can't pay cash for unless...
1) It's a property you are going to live in.
2) You need the thing for you job.
So if you need tools/ a pickup whatever to do your job, that's fine, get a loan, similarly if you need somewhere to live, get a mortgage, but don't go buying new cars/shoes/some latest tech do-dad on credit. That way financial misery lies....

 

[FDHog]

Everybody always thinks they have all the answers. If people want to have debt and spend thousands wether they can afford it or not that’s there business and If you wanna live like a hermit and nickel and dime everything go for it.

People are too busy worrying about other people’s shit that doesn’t pertain to them. Live your life and buy the shit that makes you happy cause you never know what tomorrow might bring.

I have a brother who nickles and dimes everything. Can't remember last time he ever bought a new car.
I'm more of the opposite, and it's absolutely true that you never know what tomorrow brings. 2 yrs ago, I thought cancer was something other people got, then I got prostate cancer. I was a NYC fireman during 9/11 and have too many friends who aren't here anymore. My philosophy is, as long as it doesn't hurt anyone, I'm gonna do whatever the hell I want.
All my toys are paid off and my kids are grown. Now, If I could only sleep all night through my life would be good.
If people get themselves in trouble financially, it's no one else fault but their own.

 

[Norm Peterson]

I pay most of my bills with my credit card, but do it based on my bank balance. I rack up the cash back point so much that every once in a while, the bill is paid off for free.

I know it can be done that way. Not everybody has the requisite amount of financial discipline.


Norm

 

[1MEAN18]

I have a brother who nickles and dimes everything. Can't remember last time he ever bought a new car.
I'm more of the opposite, and it's absolutely true that you never know what tomorrow brings. 2 yrs ago, I thought cancer was something other people got, then I got prostate cancer. I was a NYC fireman during 9/11 and have too many friends who aren't here anymore. My philosophy is, as long as it doesn't hurt anyone, I'm gonna do whatever the hell I want.
All my toys are paid off and my kids are grown. Now, If I could only sleep all night through my life would be good.
If people get themselves in trouble financially, it's no one else fault but their own.

Sir I live in the middle of Ohio and I still wanna thank you for your service. Hopefully one day you'll sleep all night.

 

[TorqueMan]

...hopefully makes some people stop, pause, and think about what they are doing with their money.

It's not just what people are doing with their money, it's about how the government regulates the manufacture of vehicles. Don't get me wrong, I think we should have safe vehicles, and there's no question survivability in automobile accidents has increased exponentially since Americans first started driving more than a century ago. But auto prices have increased dramatically since 1980 as government-mandated safety requirements have increased without a commensurate decrease in the fatality rate per 100,000 miles driven.

We could build a car that can absolutely guarantee zero deaths for any conditions under which the car may be driven, but very few could afford one. At some point you reach a point of diminishing returns along the safety/cost continuum. Maybe we've already passed it.

 

[1MEAN18]

It's not just what people are doing with their money, it's about how the government regulates the manufacture of vehicles. Don't get me wrong, I think we should have safe vehicles, and there's no question survivability in automobile accidents has increased exponentially since Americans first started driving more than a century ago. But auto prices have increased dramatically since 1980 as government-mandated safety requirements have increased without a commensurate decrease in the fatality rate per 100,000 miles driven.

We could build a car that can absolutely guarantee zero deaths for any conditions under which the car may be driven, but very few could afford one. At some point you reach a point of diminishing returns along the safety/cost continuum. Maybe we've already passed it.

Cars seem safer to me than most humans. My '18 is easily the quickest most powerful n/a car I've ever owned, but I know its probably one of the safest cars I could be driving too. These 6th gen's are so much bigger and heavier than my first Mustang which was a '85 GT foxbody w/t tops...hell that car was a tin can compared to my newer one.

 

[squid678]

Note that Ford is right in the thick of this. They dumped their car line with the specific intent that they were going to move those buyers into larger, more expensive CUVs that they can make more money on.

It seems to me that it's a relatively recent phenomenon that middle income families would even consider a new car as a good use of their money. Never mind buying one (or two) that that are more than they can afford and rolling that debt forward loan after the loan the way some people do today.

There seems to have been an abject failure in the last two generations to teach kids some common sense about money management and planning for the future. The same problem is a big part of why student debt has exploded. Spend it today, worry about it tomorrow and then complain about the people that you just stupidly gave all your money to.

Yes, and the failures continue... the Gov't is spending more than it can afford. The parents of the youngest generation in school bought houses that were more than they can afford and got financially killed when the market crashed. This is their common example.
Today, in their senior year high school, students are being "indoctrinated" into voluntarily filling out FAFSA forms before they are even adults. There is absolutely no care if these kids could even succeed in college yet alone afford it. They find themselves going deep in debt in their freshman year in college on a loan payment they could never afford.
The generations before have guaranteed that their children will be in debt if they follow the what the gov't primary and secondary schools put out. $1.47 trillion in unpaid student loan debt should be a pretty good indicator that the majority of the younger generation is routinely spending money they will never have.
This is the culture, and the consumer spending market wants you to buy, buy, buy... who cares if you can actually afford it!

 

[Intrepid175]

The last car I bought, I bought used. Every car I've bought before this was bought new. The main reason I give for going that way is first, I absolutely know the history of the car, how it's been maintained, and I don't risk buying someone elses problems. Second, I tend to keep my cars longer than the average bear. Six to eight years is not uncommon for me which, means the car is paid off from one to three years before I even consider trading off for something else. Needless to say, financing for 8 years kills that so I've hit my limit. That used car I bought in November of 2017 was my 2016 Mustang GT convertible. It was 17 months old with 6610 miles on it and it was decked out with all the options I wanted plus a few and one I didn't want but that's been rectified by me since purchase. I'd been wanting a new Mustang since the 2015's were released but the prices were just too much. New cars are probably off my list from now on.

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