Maximum Safe RPM?

[Notagain]

My 2016 Auto had a CJ mani and an AED flex fuel tune 8k rpm shift are insanely addicting!

For a manual car it be alot more worried about banging off the rev limiter.

Auto not so much.

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[Shifting_Gears]

I don’t think I’ve done a pull past 6,500 yet. The fun really starts around 5k. I can imagine how awesome it is with a better intake manifold and tune screaming to 8k.

I had a tune on my Focus ST and the limiter was set at 7,200. I hit that once and I find it funny thinking about a 5.0 spinning past that. My old 2V GT sounded like it would puke it’s guts anywhere past 6k.. never did though, even on the juice!

 

[Notagain]

In drag mode the 2018 A10 cars are flat out silly from a dig to redline WOT to about a buck 20.

Blows my mind how good this A10 is. Cant wait until its on E85 and FI.

 

[Shifting_Gears]

Feel like I need to drive an A10 to experience the awesome, but I can’t imagine not rowing gears in a vehicle where a manual is an option. I feel like it’s quickly becoming a lost art.

 

[Notagain]

Feel like I need to drive an A10 to experience the awesome, but I can’t imagine not rowing gears in a vehicle where a manual is an option. I feel like it’s quickly becoming a lost art.

Unless all you do is road course I cant imagine buying a manual over an A10 car. Especially one with a MT-82...........

 

[CrashOverride]

I'm really not that versed in the 5.0 as I recently just bought mine, but I've always thought the two limiting things were valve float and the acceleration of the piston. I'm guessing since the 5.0 is a DOHC motor, valve float isn't really much of an issue. The piston acceleration though is always a problem. Obviously that's where a good set of rods come in. Lousy rods like to let the pistons go.

The piston acceleration is determined by three things, RPM, stroke length and rod length. You can get away with more RPM on a high rod/stroke ratio because the piston "dwells" longer near TDC and BDC. That's why F1 cars have really long rods and a short stroke. They can get away with insane revs because of it. That's also why a stroker 383 is a torque beast, it has a long stroke but has to have a short rod to make it work.

Some interesting reading (Yes it's about Honda Engines, but it is universal): http://www.superstreetonline.com/how-to/engine/0506-ht-rod-stroke-ratio/

http://www.enginebuildermag.com/2016/08/understanding-rod-ratios/

I know that the crappy PM oil pump gears are also a failure point of a lot of engines as well.

I studied mechanical engineering and also material engineering for a while (Never finished it) but it doesn't take much to cause a fatigue. A small inclusion whether it be a burr, a hairline crack, or any other number of microscopic material deficiencies and it all goes south, very fast. When you think about the number of cycles a piston ring pin experiences over just a brief trip to 8k RPM, it is amazing. Think about taking a metal pipe and hitting it with a hammer up, then down 8000 times in one minute...

Ford knows the quality of the components better than anyone. A tuner or dyno technician can't tell if you got a rod or an oil pump gear that has a funky grain boundary or inclusion. Ford knows this when designing the parts, knowing the metal properties, and the forming techniques. They also know their spec'd GD&T so they can calculate the "worst" engine, and then apply a safety factor based on how far marketing people want to spin the motor (e.g. to have higher horsepower or a low 0-60) versus the bean counters concerned with warranty costs.

How far you want to push the safety factor is up to you. Just know that even if the part numbers are the same between engines, the suppliers could be different, or the parts hand-picked (e.g. matched piston weights, rod weights and so on). Heck some (All?) companies make revisions without even changing the part number (*cough* GM starter switch). If you over-rev it and blow it up the failure of a part is pretty easy to tell, so call me old-man-cautious, but if you rev the snot out of it, you gotta be prepared to buy a new motor on your dime...Pay to play LOL

 

[Grintch]

Unless all you do is road course I cant imagine buying a manual over an A10 car. Especially one with a MT-82...........

Why? The 10A only uses one more gear through the quarter mile, and has wonky gear spacing 6-10. Seems like a poor use of 10 speeds to me.

 

[kz]

Unless all you do is road course I cant imagine buying a manual over an A10 car. Especially one with a MT-82...........

Why ? I have A10 in the truck, it's perfect for that. Last thing I want in a Mustang is a transmission that shifts for me through this infinite number of gears.

 

[Grimace427]

Unless all you do is road course I cant imagine buying a manual over an A10 car. Especially one with a MT-82...........

Unless all you do is drag race I can't imagine owning a Mustang with an automatic. If I'm ever forced to own an auto-equipped car it would be a truck for towing/hauling.

 

[Notagain]

Let me clarify I have nothing against the manuals just the junk MT82s.......

 

[Shifting_Gears]

Let me clarify I have nothing against the manuals just the junk MT82s.......

Have we had a generation of Mustangs yet where people didn’t hate the trans for one reason or another?

T5 was glass
T45 was better and i personally loved that trans in my 00 GT
3650 had a good run but people had issues with those too.

 

[Ebm]

Let me clarify I have nothing against the manuals just the junk MT82s.......

I don't have a problem with the MT82. It has withstood so much abuse already in my car. Granted, I experience lock out from time to time, but I've had a positive experience for the most part. Before saying the MT82 is junk, try a different shifter like the Steeda tri-ax. Also, a harder bushing might help too.

 

[armykyle1 [HACKED ACCOUNT]

Unless you've driven a 10r80 car in sport or track mode, you don't know what you're talking about. The gear ratios are just fine for drag racing, road course or daily driving. "it'll shift too much" STFU every time it shifts it goes faster.

 

[CrashOverride]

Although this is really off topic, I'll bite. I've owned over 30 cars over the last couple of decades. I was driving before many of you were probably born LOL. I would say about 25 of the cars have been manuals and a handful were automatics. I've had crappy GM 3 speed autos, halfway decent GM 4-speeds (4L60E), a Jatco [Nissan] 5-speed in a 350z, a lexus with a 6-speed and a BMW with a ZF 6 speed. I've also had both the dodge 46RE 4-speed and the 45RFE which is a 5,6, or 7 speed depending on how you look at it, and the worst auto transmission ever conceived, the Dodge Ultrastar 62TE. I occasionally drive a 3/4 ton suburban at work with the 4L80e which is renowned for it's strength.

I've had a few honda manuals, isuzu manual (In a Pontiac Fiero GT), a few getregs, a T5, and a few T56's and now the MT82. My SRT-4 had the new venture gear T850. I think my S-10 had a new venture gearbox that was also kind of lousy. I don't remember what kind of gearbox my VW's had from the early 80's but they might as well have been a piece of boiled asparagus stuck in a bowl of oatmeal.

Of all of the autos, the ZF 6 speed in the BMW was (by far) the best. In sport mode, it shifted fairly quickly and most of the time would hold gears, even around corners. I sold the car because even though it was the best auto I had ever driven, I didn't like it.

I remember the T5 in my fox body being notchy, and the MT82 is (to me) very similar. In one way, I like it because it is very mechanical, but in other ways, it does not shift as good as the T56's. The Honda FWD transmissions were works of art for remote shifters, and the T850 transmission was designed for a turbo diesel european minivan and it felt like it, shift quality was abysmal, however it did take twice the torque and ran fine for over 100,000 miles.

I spend 2 hours a day in LA traffic, so I think I fit the mold for not wanting a manual, but I specifically won't consider cars if they don't have manuals. Rumors are the mid-engine C8 is going to be DCT-only, and every Benz is an auto except for the pathetic MLK250.

Yes, automatics (now) are faster. They can modulate torque better, shift faster, sometimes have more gears and allow you to take off with a torque brake opposed to (at best) a two-step with a manual. It's also much safer for the driveline. So why the manual?

1. Automatics cannot know what gear I want to be in right now, nor in 5 seconds when a gap is going to open in traffic
2. While automatics do offer various methods of manual modes, many of them do not respond when asked (Not to be confused with shifting speed)
3. Many automatics do not compression brake the same as a manual. I use this "feature" all the time.
4. No price can be put on the "one with the car" feeling I get with the manual. It represents something archaic, as if operating a paper mill, or a tractor or a piece of industrial machinery. For example, if you grab the shifter handle, you can feel the whirring of the shafts through the shift forks. If you don't use the clutch right, the car punishes/embarrasses you; whereas a good rev-matched downshift rewards you... The automatic, even exceptional ones, fail to reproduce this visceral feeling. This is really no different than a guitarist arguing tubes sound better than transistors (I'm in this camp), original audio sounds better than compressed audio (Also me), and LP's sound better than CD's (Not me, although LP's do have more character). If you think about it, for drag racing, the Tesla is probably going to out-pull, especially on an 1/8 mile. Just because it's technically better doesn't make it all that much fun.

What's best? Whatever is in your car, because you bought it to suit you. For me, I row my own gears in a car, and I use an auto for my trucks/SUVs/minivans because the torque converter makes hauling bulk materials much easier.

 

[Shifting_Gears]

Although this is really off topic, I'll bite. I've owned over 30 cars over the last couple of decades. I was driving before many of you were probably born LOL. I would say about 25 of the cars have been manuals and a handful were automatics. I've had crappy GM 3 speed autos, halfway decent GM 4-speeds (4L60E), a Jatco [Nissan] 5-speed in a 350z, a lexus with a 6-speed and a BMW with a ZF 6 speed. I've also had both the dodge 46RE 4-speed and the 45RFE which is a 5,6, or 7 speed depending on how you look at it, and the worst auto transmission ever conceived, the Dodge Ultrastar 62TE. I occasionally drive a 3/4 ton suburban at work with the 4L80e which is renowned for it's strength.

I've had a few honda manuals, isuzu manual (In a Pontiac Fiero GT), a few getregs, a T5, and a few T56's and now the MT82. My SRT-4 had the new venture gear T850. I think my S-10 had a new venture gearbox that was also kind of lousy. I don't remember what kind of gearbox my VW's had from the early 80's but they might as well have been a piece of boiled asparagus stuck in a bowl of oatmeal.

Of all of the autos, the ZF 6 speed in the BMW was (by far) the best. In sport mode, it shifted fairly quickly and most of the time would hold gears, even around corners. I sold the car because even though it was the best auto I had ever driven, I didn't like it.

I remember the T5 in my fox body being notchy, and the MT82 is (to me) very similar. In one way, I like it because it is very mechanical, but in other ways, it does not shift as good as the T56's. The Honda FWD transmissions were works of art for remote shifters, and the T850 transmission was designed for a turbo diesel european minivan and it felt like it, shift quality was abysmal, however it did take twice the torque and ran fine for over 100,000 miles.

I spend 2 hours a day in LA traffic, so I think I fit the mold for not wanting a manual, but I specifically won't consider cars if they don't have manuals. Rumors are the mid-engine C8 is going to be DCT-only, and every Benz is an auto except for the pathetic MLK250.

Yes, automatics (now) are faster. They can modulate torque better, shift faster, sometimes have more gears and allow you to take off with a torque brake opposed to (at best) a two-step with a manual. It's also much safer for the driveline. So why the manual?

1. Automatics cannot know what gear I want to be in right now, nor in 5 seconds when a gap is going to open in traffic
2. While automatics do offer various methods of manual modes, many of them do not respond when asked (Not to be confused with shifting speed)
3. Many automatics do not compression brake the same as a manual. I use this "feature" all the time.
4. No price can be put on the "one with the car" feeling I get with the manual. It represents something archaic, as if operating a paper mill, or a tractor or a piece of industrial machinery. For example, if you grab the shifter handle, you can feel the whirring of the shafts through the shift forks. If you don't use the clutch right, the car punishes/embarrasses you; whereas a good rev-matched downshift rewards you... The automatic, even exceptional ones, fail to reproduce this visceral feeling. This is really no different than a guitarist arguing tubes sound better than transistors (I'm in this camp), original audio sounds better than compressed audio (Also me), and LP's sound better than CD's (Not me, although LP's do have more character). If you think about it, for drag racing, the Tesla is probably going to out-pull, especially on an 1/8 mile. Just because it's technically better doesn't make it all that much fun.

What's best? Whatever is in your car, because you bought it to suit you. For me, I row my own gears in a car, and I use an auto for my trucks/SUVs/minivans because the torque converter makes hauling bulk materials much easier.

Well freaking said. If I could “like” your post twice, I would. Once for using the word visceral and twice for liking tube amps over modern electronics.

Lol. But seriously, spot on.

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