Manual Trans. Thud when shifting

[Ruby305GT]

Hey Ruby305GT,

As I was telling Ryan1112 in PM, the best way for Ford to track such issues is for them to be diagnosed at the dealer. Similar concerns may have different root causes, even though it has the same symptoms. I'm unable to state whether a specific situation is considered normal or not however, as I'm not a certified tech. I can only assist in the process that Ford has in place for such cases.

Jeff :ford:

Its a common issue. Why not have Ford pull a PP off the lot in their quality control and find one with the thud, they can test all the want there and find the "issue". Why does the customer have to do the leg work when its so widespread?

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[Todd15Fastback]

I believe the thud has been happening for many, many years. Could be the fact of a 2 piece driveshaft?

 

[Ruby305GT]

I believe the thud has been happening for many, many years. Could be the fact of a 2 piece driveshaft?

If Ford could just give this as a definitive answer and not simply "bring it in so we can look at it and tell you its NORMAL". It just upsets me ford customer care personnel just read off a script, "Oh, bring it in, the dealer can take a look at it" while not really caring what the heck is up with the car and whether its an issue or not. The blind leading the blind. They have more contacts than us at Ford, why not ask internally or get an engineer on the forum and save people (the CUSTOMER) a headache or time wasting. Oh, thats right, they already took my money :doh:

 

[minicobra]

Its a common issue. Why not have Ford pull a PP off the lot in their quality control and find one with the thud, they can test all the want there and find the "issue". Why does the customer have to do the leg work when its so widespread?

100% agree here. In this day and age Ford need to pay way more attention to social media. 100's of people have posted on this site and other sites about this issue, these people are not making this up. This is not just one or two cars.

It seams totally ridiculous that everyone should bring their cars into a dealer, in which they will all be diagnosed, waste time (for the dealer and the customer) possible replace parts (that don't need to be replaced)
scratch your car on the black section between the tail lights because you told them not to wash your car, but they did it anyway.

It's the SAME problem people, it's not a different problem for every car.

That's if it is a problem at all, but the fact is, Ford customers who have purchased a product are concerned, they should have answers.

Maybe it's just me, but lets say you were the owner of a company, and you were selling a product, that all of a sudden every one was commenting about a noise or vibration coming from it. Well I know if it were me, whoever was in charge of that area, I would have them check with the product supplier and figure out what was the cause of it. Then I would issue an official statement stating the reason for the noise and weather or not there was an issue as far as reliability or durability.

Especially when the issue is potentially damaging the reliability reputation of said product. When you have this popping up on Chevy and Dodge forms, that is a problem, things spread fast on the internet.

Now with that said, there may not be an issue with this at all, could just be a poor design or engineering, but nothing that will cause a failure or issue down the road. If that's the case, I can deal with it, but people should know exactly what it is. Some people are going to say, it's a car with a manual transmission, there's going to be some noises, it's normal, get over it.
Well, if that's your opinion, and your ok with the "Thud" then more power to you.

For those who think that, I ask you just one question.

Why was this "Thud" not present on any of my other manual RWD cars???

Here is the list of cars that I have recently owned that did not have the "Thud"

2012 Shelby GT500
2009 370Z
2007 BMW 335i
2005 Corvette
2003 Infinity G35

These are just recent, I can add more RWD cars to the list that didn't have it. Sure there were other noises and issues with these, but we are talking about a specific one. The "Thud" between 1-2 and 2-3 shifts at normal RPM range.

Maybe these other cars, had the same issue, but because of their design the noise wasn't audible or noticeable to the driver. keep in mind this is not just a noise, but it can be felt through the whole car almost as if you ran over a small pothole in the road.

Bottom line is, there is an issue of widespread concern that is effecting pretty much every manual 2015 GT and should be addressed by the manufacturer.
These are not different events, it is the same one, it makes no sense to waste the consumers and dealers time and resources to try and diagnose this, when it can be handled by the manufacturer of the transmission or Ford.

Lets say 300 people throughout the United States complained about the same thing, would it make sense to send them to 300 separate dealers. Wow, what a waste.

When there is widespread reporting of a common problem, you could have one or two people bring their vehicles to a "Master" or "Central Ford maintenance center" the issue could be diagnosed and then a service bulletin out to all other Ford dealerships. Simple.

Ford could really use these car forums to improve their customer service.
I've been a car enthusiast for years, and just about every time their was a common issue with any car I've every owned, when I would bring it to a dealer, they would be clueless or act dumb about it.
I do understand why they do this (but that's an entirely different thread)
If the dealer service centers were more in tune with what was happening in the car community through social media, they could be a lot more pro-active about solving problems for their customers.

The people on these car forums are on the front lines, they go to car shows, car meets, races, etc. They talk to one another about issues, and that information gets out there, fast. Aftermarket parts manufacturers have known this for years and are pretty active, but the big manufacturers are slow to get involved. There is valuable information on these forums for Ford and it's dealership/service network and it can help them improve their overall sales, reputation, and customer service if they just use and embrace it.

 

[Ruby305GT]

100% agree here. In this day and age Ford need to pay way more attention to social media. 100's of people have posted on this site and other sites about this issue, these people are not making this up. This is not just one or two cars.

It seams totally ridiculous that everyone should bring their cars into a dealer, in which they will all be diagnosed, waste time (for the dealer and the customer) possible replace parts (that don't need to be replaced)
scratch your car on the black section between the tail lights because you told them not to wash your car, but they did it anyway.

It's the SAME problem people, it's not a different problem for every car.

That's if it is a problem at all, but the fact is, Ford customers who have purchased a product are concerned, they should have answers.

Maybe it's just me, but lets say you were the owner of a company, and you were selling a product, that all of a sudden every one was commenting about a noise or vibration coming from it. Well I know if it were me, whoever was in charge of that area, I would have them check with the product supplier and figure out what was the cause of it. Then I would issue an official statement stating the reason for the noise and weather or not there was an issue as far as reliability or durability.

Especially when the issue is potentially damaging the reliability reputation of said product. When you have this popping up on Chevy and Dodge forms, that is a problem, things spread fast on the internet.

Now with that said, there may not be an issue with this at all, could just be a poor design or engineering, but nothing that will cause a failure or issue down the road. If that's the case, I can deal with it, but people should know exactly what it is. Some people are going to say, it's a car with a manual transmission, there's going to be some noises, it's normal, get over it.
Well, if that's your opinion, and your ok with the "Thud" then more power to you.

For those who think that, I ask you just one question.

Why was this "Thud" not present on any of my other manual RWD cars???

Here is the list of cars that I have recently owned that did not have the "Thud"

2012 Shelby GT500
2009 370Z
2007 BMW 335i
2005 Corvette
2003 Infinity G35

These are just recent, I can add more RWD cars to the list that didn't have it. Sure there were other noises and issues with these, but we are talking about a specific one. The "Thud" between 1-2 and 2-3 shifts at normal RPM range.

Maybe these other cars, had the same issue, but because of their design the noise wasn't audible or noticeable to the driver. keep in mind this is not just a noise, but it can be felt through the whole car almost as if you ran over a small pothole in the road.

Bottom line is, there is an issue of widespread concern that is effecting pretty much every manual 2015 GT and should be addressed by the manufacturer.
These are not different events, it is the same one, it makes no sense to waste the consumers and dealers time and resources to try and diagnose this, when it can be handled by the manufacturer of the transmission or Ford.

Lets say 300 people throughout the United States complained about the same thing, would it make sense to send them to 300 separate dealers. Wow, what a waste.

When there is widespread reporting of a common problem, you could have one or two people bring their vehicles to a "Master" or "Central Ford maintenance center" the issue could be diagnosed and then a service bulletin out to all other Ford dealerships. Simple.

Ford could really use these car forums to improve their customer service.
I've been a car enthusiast for years, and just about every time their was a common issue with any car I've every owned, when I would bring it to a dealer, they would be clueless or act dumb about it.
I do understand why they do this (but that's an entirely different thread)
If the dealer service centers were more in tune with what was happening in the car community through social media, they could be a lot more pro-active about solving problems for their customers.

The people on these car forums are on the front lines, they go to car shows, car meets, races, etc. They talk to one another about issues, and that information gets out there, fast. Aftermarket parts manufacturers have known this for years and are pretty active, but the big manufacturers are slow to get involved. There is valuable information on these forums for Ford and it's dealership/service network and it can help them improve their overall sales, reputation, and customer service if they just use and embrace it.

Thank you! I've been wanting to write in detail as you have, but I have wasted my fingers so many times that I am just ranting lately. It's ridiculous already and my patience has long gone. I only hope Ford can acknowledge this and put out an official statement on whether this is cause for concern or normal. If normal, ALSO explain where it's coming from.


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[Ryan1112]

Hey Ruby305GT,

As I was telling Ryan1112 in PM, the best way for Ford to track such issues is for them to be diagnosed at the dealer. Similar concerns may have different root causes, even though it has the same symptoms. I'm unable to state whether a specific situation is considered normal or not however, as I'm not a certified tech. I can only assist in the process that Ford has in place for such cases.

Jeff :ford:

So you say that the best way for Ford to track the issue is for it to be diagnosed by the dealer. We keep saying that if we go to the dealer they will just take a test drive with us, tell us it's normal, then send us on our way which is a total waste of everyones time. The problem is not diagnosed.

Tell you what though. I'm willing to put my money where my mouth is. I'll PM you my info and I'll take it to the dealer. It won't be until sometime the week of the 16th that I can take it because I'll be out of town but afterwards I'll report back here with what happens.

Shall we start taking bets on if the dealer says it's normal after one ride and sends me on my way?

 

[smokinzx14r]

My base GT does it .. It didn't do it when I first got it ( or I just didn't feel it ) But with 400 miles on the car I feel it in the 1-2 shift as well as the 2-3 shift ... After that I don't feel it ... I also get a light snap noise in first and second lightly getting on the gas and backing off the gas .. I have felt this on many of the old 4 speed cars I have had in the past .. In my mind it's just drive line slack ( normal ) But this thud sound it something I have never felt before ..It could be normal but I would like to know for sure .. One other thing I have noticed is the clutch engagement changes from cold to hot .. Cold it has to be way off the floor to engage , hot it engages much closer to the floor .. It could be just the temp of the clutch fluid causing it ..

 

[aeropaul]

I did a fluid change and installed the whiteline transmission mount bushing this weekend. I'm not going to go too far into the specifics yet. But I can tell you this:

With a new fluid in there, the thud does go away after the new fluid warms up and changes viscosity. When "not warmed up," there is no grinding or nibbling (I say that because it's gotten into the 60s here now). However, with the whiteline mount, when the thud is present, it's much more pronounced/louder. The trans mount insert greatly increased transmission feedback into the cabin. I can literally hear everything going on in there.

I've modified my theory given my new experience with the mount behavior, with and without an insert. The thud is absolutely generated by the synchronizer cones engaging. I believe it's due to the low viscosity of the fluid not providing enough fluid friction between the two conical faces until the clearance is so far reduced that the rotational momentum change becomes extremely abrupt, generating the thud. I think the reason it's so pronounced in the cabin is due to the engine and transmission mount design, how the cross-member attaches to the body structure, and the tunnel becoming an echo-chamber of sorts. The rear mount is very floppy, offering only vertical restraint for the transmission, very little fore-aft capability, little to no lateral capability, and little to no torsional capability. Consequently, the engine mounts must provide all the torsional stiffness, all the lateral stiffness, and all the fwd-aft stiffness. The first is not a problem since the engine mounts are naturally and historically the ones taking the rotational load, but the second and third are a little tougher given the length of the drivetrain and the distance of the trans from the engine mounts. With the whiteline insert, torsional and lateral capability, and thus stiffness, is greatly increased (compliance is decreased). With the higher load and shock transmission capability comes higher NVH. The thud is a torsional load shock that is transmitted through the engine and transmission mounts into the cabin as a thud. I believe that the stock shifter mount busing design is far too compliant to transmit much of anything into the tunnel. It's all coming through the mounts and being transmitted through a sheet-metal amphitheater. Of course, this all goes back to synchro design and fluid viscosity.

 

[Ruby305GT]

Thanks Paul, always good to hear your findings as they are always helpful. What fluid have you opted for? I am thinking of swapping into Amsoil Synchromesh. My thud comes in as the car is warmed up or as I get some spirited driving in. My guess, the viscosity of the fluid in there is not adequate when it gets heated in already hot weather. I would hope Amsoil or BG can help this out. I do have the Steeda mount in, it's helped with shifts and sturdiness of the shifts. I get some nibbles here and there, but not as before, hopefully the viscosity change will help this as well.


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[aeropaul]

Thanks Paul, always good to hear your findings as they are always helpful. What fluid have you opted for? I am thinking of swapping into Amsoil Synchromesh. My thud comes in as the car is warmed up or as I get some spirited driving in. My guess, the viscosity of the fluid in there is not adequate when it gets heated in already hot weather. I would hope Amsoil or BG can help this out. I do have the Steeda mount in, it's helped with shifts and sturdiness of the shifts. I get some nibbles here and there, but not as before, hopefully the viscosity change will help this as well.

You're welcome.

I used Royal Purple Synchromax. The OEM fluid was watery thin when it came out. Of course, I drove about 20 miles and was not very nice to it in an attempt to get it warm enough to all drain out. There was also evidence of "break in" in the OEM fill (very fine metallic dust). The RP was a good deal thicker at "cold" viscosity. I am happy with it. The whole thing "feels" much more solid, at the expense of cabin noise, which I'm cool with; I didn't buy a bimmer, so I expect some brutishness from this car.

I am also considering experimenting with RP Max Gear and Amsoil Synchromesh later on. It's a cheap and easy experiment. And these are all very good fully synthetic fluids. I'm going to stay away from Redline MTL, due to some reports of lower fluid longevity (only 20-30k miles or so).

This is such a simple improvement to make, $45 in fluid, another $5-10 for a hand pump, and 1 hr in a afternoon (gotta have time to guzzle a few beers during the job). Time will tell of cold weather performance, but so far, it's worth it.

 

[Carbon Driven]

This has been driving me crazy. I hear the thud and get some grinding or non-smooth gear shifts when city driving. I heard about the thud and gear shifting issues but what are the best recommended trans fluids to change to?

I know Paul he good experience with Royal Purple but anyone else have other good experiences?

 

[aeropaul]

This has been driving me crazy. I hear the thud and get some grinding or non-smooth gear shifts when city driving. I heard about the thud and gear shifting issues but what are the best recommended trans fluids to change to?

I know Paul he good experience with Royal Purple but anyone else have other good experiences?

I'd say your viable options are as follows (in no particular order):

Amsoil Synchromesh
BG Synchroshift II
Redline MTL
Royal Purple Synchromax [or]
Royal Purple Max Gear 75W-90 [depending on your climate and temp range, synchromax is a bit thinner, so it'd be better for lower temp climates]
Motocraft XT-11-QDC DCT Fluid with 27 mL XL-18 friction modifier [This is the specified fill per the official motocraft transmission fluid chart. This is supposed to be the factory fill, and some have reported improvement by just changing the fluid with the same OEM spec fluid]

These are the recommended fluids I have encountered

 

[dgc333]

FwIW, Royal Purple is the only one that specifically states their Syncromesh is recomended to replace the Ford spec oil.

 

[Ruby305GT]

FwIW, Royal Purple is the only one that specifically states their Syncromesh is recomended to replace the Ford spec oil.

I've heard others switching to RP and have not liked it, depending on climate. All that have used BG and Amsoil have nothing but positive experiences regardless of the climate.


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[Chameleon]

This has been driving me crazy. I hear the thud and get some grinding or non-smooth gear shifts when city driving. I heard about the thud and gear shifting issues but what are the best recommended trans fluids to change to?

Amsoil synchromesh. Worked well on my '13.

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