Looking for subwoofer placement recommendations

[Cathul]

No need for that as the physics apply to all vehicles.

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[Evolvd]

Now it's clear

In general, with car or home make no difference where it is and in your case with rear seat down it doesn't matter. I would put it on the side to keep trunk path free.

That’s not at all correct. Here’s one example to prove it.

I’m not at all worried about trunk space, hence doing the sub wall.

 

[m3incorp]

I didn't watch this video but I wil say that loud bass and quality bass are two different things.

OP, sorry you aren't getting much help but as stated above, probably better to ask in a dedicated audio forum. The problem I think you will run into though is that most people mounted their subs either facing forward or rearward and didn't bother trying them both ways and using the proper tools that would be able to tell them which sounds better "to them". The other issue is finding someone with an S550 that did all the research you are seeking. Keep in mind, the majority of people actually pay someone else to install audio equipment. I don't think they want to pay to research which is the best way to face a sub in their car.

You are building a custom box, so you probably have way more experience than many and the time to do the research. The word "custom" to me, tends to mean something that is specifically designed for a speciic purpose. It appears that you are set on building your custom permanent mount box with the subs facing forward. I say go for it and report back on how you like it. The only way to truly know which orientation sounds better, is to temporarily mount it facing forward, run your analysis and then mount it facing to the rear and run your analysis again.

That’s not at all correct. Here’s one example to prove it.

I’m not at all worried about trunk space, hence doing the sub wall.

 

[Evolvd]

I didn't watch this video but I wil say that loud bass and quality bass are two different things.

OP, sorry you aren't getting much help but as stated above, probably better to ask in a dedicated audio forum. The problem I think you will run into though is that most people mounted their subs either facing forward or rearward and didn't bother trying them both ways and using the proper tools that would be able to tell them which sounds better "to them". The other issue is finding someone with an S550 that did all the research you are seeking. Keep in mind, the majority of people actually pay someone else to install audio equipment. I don't think they want to pay to research which is the best way to face a sub in their car.

You are building a custom box, so you probably have way more experience than many and the time to do the research. The word "custom" to me, tends to mean something that is specifically designed for a speciic purpose. It appears that you are set on building your custom permanent mount box with the subs facing forward. I say go for it and report back on how you like it. The only way to truly know which orientation sounds better, is to temporarily mount it facing forward, run your analysis and then mount it facing to the rear and run your analysis again.

Hey, it never hurts to ask!

 

[Cathul]

It's easy...
Given that the basic physics is the same in all cars you can both forward and rear firing the subs.
If you forward fire the subs directly into the cabin you need to seal the cabin from the trunk to get good results.
If rearward firing ideally you should put the sub as far back to the end of the car as possible to get the best frequency response.
If reardward firing and box tucked behind the seat you get a deep dip between 80Hz and 120Hz.

Above response is a JL Audio 10w3v3 in a ported box rearward firing sitting directly behind the seats.
In the position where Ford puts the stock subwoofer i get the following response (JL 8w3v3 in stock enclosure).

A lot more midbass, but a dip between 60 and 80Hz, but otherwise perfectly flat between 20Hz and 60Hz.

 

[ICU812]

As a semi professional musician for 40 + years, for bass frequencies orientation does not matter. The size of the driver does.

Yup, bass isn't directional. like mid-highs .

 

[ICU812]

No offense to your experience but orientation can make a significant dB difference. This has been proven time and again and there’s plenty of evidence posted to YouTube to back it.

So you want loud, muddy sound, not as recorded tight bass.?
build a bandpass box. and call it a day.
Anyone can build loud. not precise . not judging, just say'n.
Some like it loud and loose (band pass or ported) some like it precise, tight and clean. (sealed) . seal require more amp to be as loud as the other two, but reproduce the low end as recorded not a loose muddy low end that the other two produce but louder with less amp power.
What is your goal? To have great low end you hear, or low end everyone on the block hears, but is loose and muddy.
Only you know.

 

[Cathul]

Yup, bass isn't directional. like mid-highs .

And therefore orientation and location of the subwoofer within the car matters as was shown over and over again.
With a very directional driver you almost don't have to care about reflections from boundaries beside or behind the driver. With omnidirectional drivers you have. Put the sub too far way from the back of the trunk and you get severe cancellations at the listeners position due to phase problems caused by the omnidrectional sound from the subwoofer. Put him right to the back of the trunk and most of these phase problems dissapear.

 

[ICU812]

And therefore orientation and location of the subwoofer within the car matters as was shown over and over again.
With a very directional driver you almost don't have to care about reflections from boundaries beside or behind the driver. With omnidirectional drivers you have. Put the sub too far way from the back of the trunk and you get severe cancellations at the listeners position due to phase problems caused by the omnidrectional sound from the subwoofer. Put him right to the back of the trunk and most of these phase problems dissapear.

Whatever you want to think.
You are in a small cabin, timing phasing come on you are not a sound guy building a system for a 20000 seat hall.
it is a tiny cabin.
A sheet metal one at that.
Being fed a source material of compressed to almighty hell music file or streaming .
Jukn in, junk out.

 

[Cathul]

Oh my god.... all this was tested so many times... in actual cars...

Have you even read the link that i posted in my first reply in this thread?
There it was tested in different sized cars, from small ones to big ones and result was comparable in each and everyone of them.

Best location for a sub in a car is in the rear right corner, 2nd best rear firing directly in the back of the trunk. 3rd best rear firing while located behind the rear seats. Worst is right in the middle of the car, f.e. directly behind the front seats.

It is physics that applies here. You get cancellation from the soundwaves that are reflected by the back of the trunk that are then severely out of phase if you forward fire a sub into the cabin without sealing the cabin from the trunk. You even have some cancellations if putting the sub into the right rear corner (where the original sub is located in a Mustang), but not as severe as all other choices from my experience...

It's physics and has nothing to do with "colored" sound due to incorrectly built enclosures (like most prefab ported boxes), but just where in the f'ing trunk do i put my subwoofer?
After that it's about the tuning with a DSP. And if you don't have one, correct location of the sub in the trunk is even more important to minimize the effect of phase anomalies that gives you nulls in the most important region of the frequency range, i.e. the crossover region of the sub to midbass.

And regarding your other comment regarding not being a sound guy...

These are my before and after measurements of my system before and after setting up my DSP.

so please don't assume that i don't know what i'm talking about, ok?
And not everyone listens to compressed as hell source material. Tbh... i think the 1988 compact disc from Michael Jacksons Thriller is not that bad as it's got a DR rating of 15 (https://dr.loudness-war.info/album/view/182496).

 

[Evolvd]

Personally I listen to CDs if I want the best sound I can get from my music. Next is my iPod loaded with Apple Lossless rips. Last resort is Sirius XM.

And yes, even small cars can have phasing issues when the sound reflects off a an interior surface and comes back towards the source. This is exactly why sub placement for optimal acoustical energy is desired.

Or, I can just have more people come into this thread and talk to me like I’m an idiot and instead of answering the question I ask they just regurgitate the same incorrect info they’ve been fed for years.

Cathul, thank you for chiming in. I’ll hit you up in PM with some ideas I have and see what you think.

 

[StangTime]

@Cathul is correct. I have basically the same measurements in my car with a huge null at 80hz. Ported sub behind seat facing the rear. Having a sub at the trunk opening is not practical for obvious reasons and I didn't want a spendy JL stealthbox.

If I were to do the sub install over again, I would go infinite baffle on an angled board and have the subs magnets pointing toward the rear seats. Bass passing through the open holes in the rear deck because I don't like driving with the rear seats down. Like this but the drivers flipped around to save trunk space:

I have my mid-bass drivers helping fill the hole at 80hz and it sounds good. But I know it can sound better with a different sub arrangement.

 

[Cathul]

Well, it could be worse... imagine having the big null at and above 80Hz in the sub response and in the midbass in the lower doors... _That_ would be really bad as there would be nothing you could do to get a good midbass response.
Compared to other cars midbass response from the door drivers isn't as bad as there are almost no nulls between 60Hz and 100Hz, which is the important transition region of sub to midbass. So you can make up for that null in the subwoofers response and still get decent midbass from a good setup system.

 

[StangTime]

Here is another option. Elevated trunk floor with subs in the spare tire well at the far rear of the trunk:

 

[StangTime]

Well, it could be worse... imagine having the big null at and above 80Hz in the sub response and in the midbass in the lower doors... _That_ would be really bad as there would be nothing you could do to get a good midbass response.
Compared to other cars midbass response from the door drivers isn't as bad as there are almost no nulls between 60Hz and 100Hz, which is the important transition region of sub to midbass. So you can make up for that null in the subwoofers response and still get decent midbass from a good setup system.

Yes, it could be worse. That's why I'm temped to live with it. The rabbit hole is deep if you chose to go down it.

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