Limp Mode on the Track

[FastCarFanBoy]

you do realize that the car also pull power when the car is not up to temp yet, right? ( this does include the transmission from what i've found). Got any hard data to support reduced power with low tranny temps?

I would dare to guess that no signal from the trans temp sensor will also cause an issue. mount the entire sensor in atmosphere so it gets an ambient reading

280 degrees is WAY hot and I'm actually pretty surprised that the threshold is that high, especially when it seems 170 is the high water mark for the Track Pack cars.where are you pulling this 170deg from? Heres a guy who tracks a Boss and he saw 300deg and plenty of Boss's have been tracked with no additional coolers

http://trackmustangsonline.com/index.php?topic=8132.0

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[nastang87xx]

What I find interesting is the continuos interest that limp mode brings to those who don't need to worry about it. I.e. Track pack owners and non shelby owners

I'm actually interested in the topic.

Then there ends up being more arguing about petty personal shit than actual facts about the cars. It's annoying as hell. A bunch of grown ass men who can't get a grip and have an organized discussion like MEN. Any other person who came into these threads probably would think this forum is full of 12 year olds who just lost an online match of Halo Reach.

I've posted several questions, possible solutions or experiments, and interests about the topic and they've all gotten lost in the pointless bickering.

 

[FastCarFanBoy]

I'm actually interested in the topic.

Then there ends up being more arguing about petty personal shit than actual facts about the cars. It's annoying as hell. A bunch of grown ass men who can't get a grip and have an organized discussion like MEN. Any other person who came into these threads probably would think this forum is full of 12 year olds who just lost an online match of Halo Reach.

I've posted several questions, possible solutions or experiments, and interests about the topic and they've all gotten lost in the pointless bickering.

its seems as though the Base/Tech guys feel Ford screwed them and owes them a fix. they dont seem to want to attempt to fix the issue themselves...thats how I perceive it.

 

[nastang87xx]

its seems as though the Base/Tech guys feel Ford screwed them and owes them a fix. they dont seem to want to attempt to fix the issue themselves...thats how I perceive it.

^^
This isn't helping. The discussion nor the cars' conditions.

 

[Blk2015GT]

I'm actually interested in the topic.

Then there ends up being more arguing about petty personal shit than actual facts about the cars. It's annoying as hell. A bunch of grown ass men who can't get a grip and have an organized discussion like MEN. Any other person who came into these threads probably would think this forum is full of 12 year olds who just lost an online match of Halo Reach.

I've posted several questions, possible solutions or experiments, and interests about the topic and they've all gotten lost in the pointless bickering.

Totally agree. It's ridiculous. As if someone held a gun to tech pack and base owners and said buy this model or else.

The logic is astounding. Why the hell would they call a trim a track package and ADD the coolers specifically as part of that package denoted as track? Why would that even need to exist? The excuse oh track package means it adds more to the track experience, um no, that would be the R actually. And where are these promises coming from of lasting x minutes at y degrees ambient?

But no, lets go Google every single piece of Ford literature (which says the GT350, not denoting any package or R, just very general sweeping advertising statements that mentions the work track) the person never even saw to rely upon what it when buying the car. It's just childish.

This is just a bad choice in ordering by a small few. EVERYONE has every opportunity to order the track package. There were no limits that anyone can voice on tech vs track in allocation. Buying on impulse isnt an excuse.

 

[Caballus]

None of us is wrong. We're all right. Just ask us.

 

[zombiekiller]

http://trackmustangsonline.com/index.php?topic=8132.0

If you read the empirical evidence from the track pack owners of gt350s, you will see that the trans generally sits at 165 degrees regardless of how hard they push it. I'm not talking about a boss, or any other car, just the gt350. running a trans repeatedly at 300 degrees is just asking for something bad to happen.

its seems as though the Base/Tech guys feel Ford screwed them and owes them a fix. they dont seem to want to attempt to fix the issue themselves...thats how I perceive it.

I'll fix it myself, after i've exhaiusted logical options with ford. The challenge here is that a mustang gt lasts far longer at the track that a tech or base gt350. hell, a PT cruiser outlasted me on the track. That seems like a properly designed car? the inferred expectation of a gt350 is that it will run faster and better than a gt, regardless of how it is optioned.

Totally agree. It's ridiculous. As if someone held a gun to tech pack and base owners and said buy this model or else.

The logic is astounding. Why the hell would they call a trim a track package and ADD the coolers specifically as part of that package denoted as track? Why would that even need to exist? And where are these promises coming from of lasting x minutes at y degrees ambient?

But no, lets go Google every single piece of Ford literature (which says the GT350, not denoting any package or R, just very general sweeping advertising statements that mentions the work track) the person never even saw to rely upon what it when buying the car. It's just childish.

This is just a bad choice in ordering by a small few. EVERYONE has every opportunity to order the track package. There were no limits that anyone can voice on tech vs track in allocation. Buying on impulse isnt an excuse.

you're missing the point completely. if it was made clear that the two options were a. track pack for ANY track use at all or B. Tech pack that WILL NOT FUNCTION for longer than 15 minutes on the track, many decisions would have been different.

The clarity is what was/is lacking.

Not one of the tech owners with two brain celss is asking for a corrective action FOR FREE.

and no, not everyone had the option to order a track pack based of huge ADMs, dealers choosing packages for inventory, and the generally ridiculousness that has surrounded even taking possession of A gt350.

not everyone has the option, or chooses to make the awful financial decision of shelling out an addition 20 Grand for what seems like equipment that at first glance, is trivial to add to the car, because dealer A wants 20 grand over sticker for a vehicle vs the logical dealer willing to take msrp for a tech car.

hell, find me one performance car on the market that gives up after 15 minutes on the track. find me a new car period outside of the gt350 that does this.

just one.

the significant limitations of the base/tech cars is what caught everyone off guard.

 

[Caballus]

ZK, as always, well said. I differ in one aspect though--or maybe I simply have only 1 brain cell. While I do not think Ford should provide free coolers, I still think there is an answer short of coolers that will allow the car to perform for a single track session, which I see as the objective. I don't believe that corrective action should cost, any more than I believe fixing the current fiasco with the F150 should cost. Having said that, I also realize that is a super long shot, and assuming Ford even develops a solution, they will charge for it. Again, I am not asking for coolers or TP/R-level performance.

 

[zombiekiller]

ZK, as always, well said. I differ in one aspect though--or maybe I simply have only 1 brain cell. While I do not think Ford should provide free coolers, I still think there is an answer short of coolers that will allow the car to perform for a single track session, which I see as the objective. I don't believe that corrective action should cost, any more than I believe fixing the current fiasco with the F150 should cost. Having said that, I also realize that is a super long shot, and assuming Ford even develops a solution, they will charge for it. Again, I am not asking for coolers or TP/R-level performance.

the bad news is, it sounds like the main source of heat is the front transmission cluster based on higher RPMs from the 5.2.

Mattlqx tested his tech car with cats removed and the impact was marginal. it appears as though the cats heat soaking the transmission hypothesis wasnt even close to accurate.

So net/net, at face value, it would appear that only a cooler will correct the condition, unless you want to lug the car around the track a gear higher than it should be in for the whole session.

I don't think channeling simple airflow up towards the trans will make a large enough impact on trans temps to make a tangible difference based on the thickness of the case and the temps that we're talking about. Furthermore, IMO you'd have to vastly increase the surface area of the case in order to have a hope of impacting the temps enough to extend time till 280 degrees.

in short, it does not appear that there will be a cheap or easy way to even bandaid the behavior. it will be transmission cooler or bust.

 

[FastCarFanBoy]

hell, find me one performance car on the market that gives up after 15 minutes on the track. find me a new car period outside of the gt350 that does this.

just one.

a non-Z51 C7

 

[zombiekiller]

a non-Z51 C7

try again. There's one at my home track that comes out for hpde.

never seen him not make the 20 min sessions in their entirety.

 

[CSL]

I'll fix it myself, after i've exhaiusted logical options with ford. The challenge here is that a mustang gt lasts far longer at the track that a tech or base gt350. hell, a PT cruiser outlasted me on the track. That seems like a properly designed car? the inferred expectation of a gt350 is that it will run faster and better than a gt, regardless of how it is optioned.

It does run faster and better than a GT....for about 15 minutes. That is why Ford recommended the track pack for track use, because that is all it lasts before this high revving heat machine needs to take a break. I'm not saying Ford did not mess up with the packaging of this car, but they offered the packaging they did and we were forced to choose.

 

[lemers]

Didn't limit performance statements about the track to the GT350 with track package here either

http://www.ispot.tv/ad/AdhT/2016-ford-mustang-shelby-gt350-street-legal



http://www.detroitnews.com/story/business/autos/ford/2014/11/17/ford-shelby-mustang/19160671/

Moray Callum, Ford vice president of design, called the GT350 a "true track car."
"That's why we went with the wider front track, the lower hood, and the better aero," he said. "It was much more of a valid track car more than some of the previous Shelbys have been."




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2016 GT350 Magnetic w/Black Stripes / Black Roof /Tech Package, ETA 10 March (Bremerhaven, Germany), under MSRP

 

[lemers]

It does run faster and better than a GT....for about 15 minutes. That is why Ford recommended the track pack for track use, because that is all it lasts before this high revving heat machine needs to take a break. I'm not saying Ford did not mess up with the packaging of this car, but they offered the packaging they did and we were forced to choose.

-------------------------------------------------
2016 GT350 Magnetic w/Black Stripes / Black Roof /Tech Package, ETA 10 March (Bremerhaven, Germany), under MSRP

 

[GRTWHT]

It does run faster and better than a GT....for about 15 minutes. That is why Ford recommended the track pack for track use, because that is all it lasts before this high revving heat machine needs to take a break. I'm not saying Ford did not mess up with the packaging of this car, but they offered the packaging they did and we were forced to choose.

So why is Ford including the coolers on the "base" 2017 MY? Now the only choice is a "base" or an "R"; both include the coolers. I will venture to say that 95% of first 1000 GT350 owners had absolutely no choice in selecting their car. The cars were already on the lots, equipped the way they were, with a "vast" majority being "tech" equipped cars. Unfortunately, they found out too late that their performance claims were limited based on the packaged selected. Ford has now eliminated the "choice" and is making one car, the way it should have been from the beginning.

I looked at a ton of videos by Ford, media outlets, etc., and after reviewing them again I noticed one major item. When you see these cars on the track, they are either "R" models or track optioned cars (you can tell by the spoilers). When they are "street" driving the cars, they are tech packaged cars. I believe this was purposely done by Ford to demonstrate its track worthiness, and on the other hand, show the "luxury style" interior with all the tech options and leather seats. This type of presentation would lead most to believe that one can drive in luxury to the track, tests the limits of the car on a race track, and drive home again, all in one car.

I have a tech packaged car. I am more than pleased with everything this car has and offers. If I ever take it to a track, 15 minutes is more than enough time (about 10 laps) to enjoy the car. If Ford decided to do anything for the 2015/16 tech/base cars, I will be first in line to have the mods done. If they ignore the situation and do nothing, I will still enjoy my car. I agree with those who say if you planned to track the car that much, you should have opted for the track package. However, I also agree with those who say that Ford was not entirely upfront regarding the performance limitations of the car. Some point to the owners manual that specifically states the limitations of the tech packaged cars. But, you can only read the "owners manual" after you bought the car....too late then.

Ford is very much aware of this issue and has addressed it for the 2017 MY. By doing so, it is my position that Ford knows it made a mistake in how it advertised the car and how the cars were equipped. Let's give them some time and the opportunity to resolve the issue with the current cars

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