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Let's talk about the C8 vs the GT500

shogun32

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heir car should be faster than a Ford GT.
Bulk stats aside (ie weight, tq, hp) slipperiness and the quality of the suspension are also major factors in a fast lap time.
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1mic

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Bulk stats aside (ie weight, tq, hp) slipperiness and the quality of the suspension are also major factors in a fast lap time.
Yup, that's why that claim is VERY hard to believe. Also the brakes, the show car is no indication of what will be offered, but GM will have to put on carbon brakes on this car, everything on the fast list of track cars have massive performance brakes.
 

JohnnyUtah

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Yup, that's why that claim is VERY hard to believe. Also the brakes, the show car is no indication of what will be offered, but GM will have to put on carbon brakes on this car, everything on the fast list of track cars have massive performance brakes.
Z07 package on the C7 had carbon brakes. I would assume they would be available on the C8
 

Andy13186

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This is the case with just about any performance cars. How many 2018 GTs have you really seen lay down sub-4 second 0-60 times on the street?

No manufacturer claims acceleration times "on the street", because that's illegal to perform in most cases, so it's pointless to advertise
Found this 60 foot to 0-60 MPH theoretical conversion. Apparently to hit 60 below 3 seconds you need about a 1.6 60 foot time. I dont think the vette will do that with stock tires even on a prepped drag strip and obviously no where close to that on actual roads. Steeda did a wheelie with their 2018 hitting a 1.53 60 foot..
This is assuming a somewhat linear rate of acceleration, with a FAST 1-2 shift. It's in line with what I have measured with a G-tech accelerometer.

Have fun!

2.3 second 60' time = 35.5 mph @60' = 7.0 second 0-60 time
2.2 second 60' time = 37.1 mph @60' = 6.5 second 0-60 time
2.1 second 60' time = 38.9 mph @60' = 5.9 second 0-60 time
2.0 second 60' time = 40.9 mph @60' = 5.2 second 0-60 time
1.9 second 60' time = 43.0 mph @60' = 4.6 second 0-60 time
1.8 second 60' time = 45.5 mph @60' = 4.0 second 0-60 time
1.7 second 60' time = 48.1 mph @60' = 3.4 second 0-60 time
1.6 second 60' time = 51.1 mph @60' = 2.9 second 0-60 time
1.5 second 60' time = 54.5 mph @60' = 2.2 second 0-60 time
1.4 second 60' time = 58.4 mph @60' = 1.5 second 0-60 time
1.36 second 60' time = 60.0 mph @60' = 1.36 second 0-60 time
1.3 second 60' time = 62.9 mph @60' = 1.2 second 0-60 time
1.2 second 60' time = 68.1 mph @60' = 1.1 second 0-60 time
1.1 second 60' time = 74.3 mph @60' = 0.9 second 0-60 time
1.0 second 60' time = 81.8 mph @60' = 0.7 second 0-60 time


Here's the math:

0-60 is a function of traction, engine power, rear end gearing, shifting ability.

You can kind of back out a 0-60 from a 60 ft time. For example, if you assume a constant acceleration over the 60 ft time (which is not always a good assumption), then you can assume that your time to distance function is given by the double integral of a constant acceleration:

0.5 * acceleration*(60ft time)^2 = 60 ft

Solving this gives acceleration in ft / sec^2 of

a = 120 ft / (60ft time)^2

Since 1 MPH is about 1.47 ft/sec, assuming the constant acceleration, noting velocity is acceleration times time, and solving for the math,

Velocity at end of 60 ft is approximately 81.82 / 60ft-time (units ignored for simplicity).

In other words, take your 60 ft time, divide it into 81.82, and that will give you an approximate MPH at the end of the 60 ft.

Here are a few values

2.0 60 ft - end velocity is 40.9 MPH
1.8 60 ft - end velocity is 45.5 MPH
1.6 60 ft - end velocity is 51.1 MPH
1.5 60 ft - end velocity is 54.5 MPH
1.4 60 ft - end velocity is 58.4 MPH (very quick 0-60 )
1.3 60 ft - end velocity is 62.9 MPH
1.2 60 ft - end velocity is 68.2 MPH

The above values are not going to be right due to the approximations used, but are close. And this is why drag racing is frequently won/lost in the 60 ft time. Incidentally, 1 g of (average) acceleration is somewhere around the 1.9 sec 60 ft time. 1 g of average acceleration over a whole 1/4 mile gives you a 9.08 ET. Cars do not have a constant acceleration over a 1/4, however, which is why that is way off.
 
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1mic

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Z07 package on the C7 had carbon brakes. I would assume they would be available on the C8
I didnt know there was a z07 package available for the stingray. For the z06 sure.
 

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martinjlm

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Nope.
The c8 is nothing new, if anything its a heavier mid engine car that has more torque than similar mid engine cars. Z06 have run 10s. You're saying a stock C8 will run 10s also? The Ford GT runs high 10s, does it with 647hp and 550tq, weighs around 200lbs lighter than the c8 if the c8 weighs in around 3600lbs.

GM probably did run 10s on a gutted/slicks c8. but the stock car coming out in showroom floors, z51 and all, will not run 10s. GT3 doesnt run 10s, only thing that car gives up to the c8 is the torque, 338tq vs 470tq, but theres a 300lb+ weight difference.
I’m not saying the C8 will run 10s. I’m not projecting any numbers until I get my hands on one or read reviews from credible reviewers. What I AM saying is that the guy who led development of the C7 Z06 and led development of the C8, including Z51 and other models yet to come, has stated definitively that the C8 Z51 “outperforms the C7 Z06 in every way”. Seems pretty clear to me and coming directly from the person who would know the most about the capability of both cars.
 

millhouse

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I’m not saying the C8 will run 10s. I’m not projecting any numbers until I get my hands on one or read reviews from credible reviewers. What I AM saying is that the guy who led development of the C7 Z06 and led development of the C8, including Z51 and other models yet to come, has stated definitively that the C8 Z51 “outperforms the C7 Z06 in every way”. Seems pretty clear to me and coming directly from the person who would know the most about the capability of both cars.
Seems pretty clear, until you compare what is physically possible. It's clear he's playing a bit of a word game to prop up the C8 (it's his job). It's pretty clear that the C8 will not outperform the C7 Z06 in the 1/4 mile at the dragstrip. My guess is, he's referring to track and possibly traction limited street performance. Better breaking, better off the line acceleration. Everything except 1/4 mile (and likely top speed).
 

shogun32

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> if you assume a constant acceleration over the 60 ft time (which is not always a good assumption),
Yeah 0-60ft is a lousy indicator of 'future' (0-60mph) performance I should think since some to considerable wheel-spin occurs during those first 60ft. With some high HP cars, the wheels may still be spinning way past 200ft or more.
 

1mic

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Seems pretty clear, until you compare what is physically possible. It's clear he's playing a bit of a word game to prop up the C8 (it's his job). It's pretty clear that the C8 will not outperform the C7 Z06 in the 1/4 mile at the dragstrip. My guess is, he's referring to track and possibly traction limited street performance. Better breaking, better off the line acceleration. Everything except 1/4 mile (and likely top speed).
The engineer probably means the z06 version of the c8 will be better than the c7 version. Basically what ever c8 version comes out will be a better performing car, from base model all the way up to zr1 compared to the c7 line up.
Natural progression, them going mid engine just increased the corvettes potential.
 

millhouse

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The engineer probably means the z06 version of the c8 will be better than the c7 version. Basically what ever c8 version comes out will be a better performing car, from base model all the way up to zr1 compared to the c7 line up.
Natural progression, them going mid engine just increased the corvettes potential.
Great point....and you're likely correct.
 

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martinjlm

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The engineer probably means the z06 version of the c8 will be better than the c7 version. Basically what ever c8 version comes out will be a better performing car, from base model all the way up to zr1 compared to the c7 line up.
Natural progression, them going mid engine just increased the corvettes potential.
Except he specifically said Z51 and he’s the guy that developed both gens, so I’m thinking he pretty much knew exactly what he was saying.
 

Andy13186

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I wonder what the gt500 will do in the 1/4 with slicks and a lightweight front brake swap. Those front brake rotors have to weigh like 70 lbs each. Then add a pulley, e85, tune.. should make 900+ rwhp much more easily and reliably than the c8.
 
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Andy13186

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One other thing I noticed is the gt500 has a 7 speed DCT and the C8 is an 8 speed. I wonder if there will be a major difference in terms of power holding ability.
 

millhouse

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Except he specifically said Z51 and he’s the guy that developed both gens, so I’m thinking he pretty much knew exactly what he was saying.
Honestly, I think this is gong to be one of those time that people will be so influenced by the "mid engine" mystique and the claimed 0-60 times that none will likely hold him to his claims...which quite frankly don't make sense. This goes beyond being skeptical. There isn't enough pixie dust in GM's arsenal for the C8 to beat out the C7 Z06 in the 1/4 mile. Stoplight to stoplight, yes...it will likely kill it with it's 60'. It just doesn't have to hp/weight ratio to out-muscle cars like the z06.
 
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martinjlm

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One other thing I noticed is the gt500 has a 7 speed DCT and the C8 is an 8 speed. I wonder if there will be a major difference in terms of power holding ability.
Differences in performance between the two is more likely to be rooted in the interval gearing strategies. For the C8, 7th and 8th gears are both overdrive, so all the “fun” happens in the first 6 gears. Not sure for GT500, but I would expect 7th to be overdrive. If 6th is not overdrive, then it becomes a question of what do the 6 non-overdrive gears bring to the party for each car. I would expect the gearing for the cars to be different because they are tailored to supplement wildly different engines with different power bands. So comparing them ratio-to-ratio makes for an interesting mathematical exercise but proves pretty much nothing. It comes down to which transmission provides better access to optimal power band position in most parts of the driving experience.
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