Let's talk about the C8 vs the GT500

Jmtoast

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 21, 2019
Messages
2,737
Reaction score
1,749
Location
Michigan
First Name
John
Vehicle(s)
2018 Roush GT
Vehicle Showcase
1
That is a pretty stupid statement. Without the boost they are not getting 850 hp and the boost provider supercharger takes 90 hp friction loss out of the system. What they did is they ran a computer simulation with the boost value from the supercharger embedded into the scenario, and then they calculated the theoretical power output hp at the crank (Not whp). While doing the simulation they did not check the box and input the friction values for anything including the supercharger (assume floss=0). Its all theoretical and doesn’t apply to the real world. You can claim the same thing for every boosted car in the world. Ford should fire his ass
Yeah Chevy said the same thing about the ZR1. 850hp but only 750 actual crank HP. Not sure why they make these kind of statements.





Advertisement

 

shogun32

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 8, 2019
Messages
7,215
Reaction score
4,097
Location
Northern VA
First Name
Matt
Vehicle(s)
2019 GT+PP, SS+1LE, 2020 F150
Vehicle Showcase
2
Yeah Chevy said the same thing about the ZR1. 850hp but only 750 actual crank HP. Not sure why they make these kind of statements.
Because the world is full of ignoramus like that youtuber who has never read a book on engine design nor even a one-pager WIKI on the subject of principles of forced induction. Ford marketing is depending on the "oh my gahd, 850HP" to sway purchase decisions. It's no different than the "this car can do 2.98s 0-60 but this other one can only manage a 3.2" as a purchase criteria.
 

ALUSA

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 13, 2017
Messages
555
Reaction score
178
Location
Plainfield, IL
First Name
AL
Vehicle(s)
2015 Mustang GTPP, 2017 Cadillac CTS 2.0T AWD
Because the world is full of ignoramus like that youtuber who has never read a book on engine design nor even a one-pager WIKI on the subject of principles of forced induction. Ford marketing is depending on the "oh my gahd, 850HP" to sway purchase decisions. It's no different than the "this car can do 2.98s 0-60 but this other one can only manage a 3.2" as a purchase criteria.
Well at least the 0-60 times are all after a real world test data. Ford did the same for the 10 speed GTPP and it is proven in real world that the car can do 0-60 under 4 seconds. I am ok with the real world test results even though the optimum test conditions are hard to meet.
 

Cardude99

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 14, 2016
Messages
2,476
Reaction score
1,052
Location
Phoenix, AZ
First Name
Sam
Vehicle(s)
2018 Ecoboost
It would be cool if Ford reacted the c8 unveil and said crank up the boost. Technically if they get 760 whp then they were still being truthful. I guess we will see when this thing gets dyno'd
 

martinjlm

Retired from GM
Joined
Feb 4, 2018
Messages
1,756
Reaction score
2,503
Location
Detroit
Vehicle(s)
2017 Camaro Fifty SS Convertible
I just read an interview where a guy stated that the C8 Z51 outperforms the C7 Z06 in every measurable way. The guy who said this? The guy who led the development of both cars. :shock:. I’m REALLY starting to see a C8 3LT Z51 in my future.

He also confirmed that MT was designed out and that the car was for all intents and purposes shrink wrapped around the DCT.
 

thehunterooo

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 6, 2014
Messages
3,259
Reaction score
1,059
Location
FL
Vehicle(s)
2006 Corvette
Sounds like the C7 Z06 is trash if it is losing to a 64k car like that.
 

HoosierDaddy

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 2, 2016
Messages
6,107
Reaction score
4,265
Location
Winchestertonfieldville (ok, Scottsdale), AZ
First Name
Randy
Vehicle(s)
2016 GT Premium PP
Sounds like the C7 Z06 is trash if it is losing to a 64k car like that.
If true the C8 is faster in every way, I'm almost certain its because they made the C8 better and NOT somehow retroactively made the C7 Z06 slower. So unless it was trash before, its not trash now.
 

martinjlm

Retired from GM
Joined
Feb 4, 2018
Messages
1,756
Reaction score
2,503
Location
Detroit
Vehicle(s)
2017 Camaro Fifty SS Convertible
I just read an interview where a guy stated that the C8 Z51 outperforms the C7 Z06 in every measurable way. The guy who said this? The guy who led the development of both cars. :shock:. I’m REALLY starting to see a C8 3LT Z51 in my future.

He also confirmed that MT was designed out and that the car was for all intents and purposes shrink wrapped around the DCT.
If true the C8 is faster in every way, I'm almost certain its because they made the C8 better and NOT somehow retroactively made the C7 Z06 slower. So unless it was trash before, its not trash now.
I went back and read some of the comments of people who were in attendance at the interview and they say that Ed later qualified his statements a bit by stating that the mid-engine design eliminates the traction issue that C7 Z06 has. Basically, for C7, traction limits the car’s ability to put ALL the power down until the car reaches 90 - 100 mph. With so much mass over the rear axle, C8 Z51 does not have that problem and just runs away from Z06. By the time Z06 hits 90 - 100, it has a lot of ground to make up to catch a C8 Z51. This leads me to believe Z51 will clip the quarter first but Z06 will trap faster.

This is pretty much what I was trying to explain when I was pointing out that the Porsche 911 Carrera S gives up 207 hp and 260 lb-ft of torque to the ZL1, but performance metrics for the two are very similar. It’s the amount of available power and torque that can be put down versus the total amount of power and torque. Putting weight over the traction wheels helps that immensely.
 

ALUSA

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 13, 2017
Messages
555
Reaction score
178
Location
Plainfield, IL
First Name
AL
Vehicle(s)
2015 Mustang GTPP, 2017 Cadillac CTS 2.0T AWD
I just read an interview where a guy stated that the C8 Z51 outperforms the C7 Z06 in every measurable way. The guy who said this? The guy who led the development of both cars. :shock:. I’m REALLY starting to see a C8 3LT Z51 in my future.

He also confirmed that MT was designed out and that the car was for all intents and purposes shrink wrapped around the DCT.
This is almost as when GM introduced the fifth gen Z28 Camaro and then the next generation regular camaro ss 1le matching and out performing it. The power and torque difference is really big for the corvette though. Its really interesting to see how a rear weight bias, mid engine setup with a DCT can affect the performance to this extend. That is a pretty ballsy claim. Did he mention the C7 ZO6 having the ZO7 package or not? Maybe a base model ZO6?
 

shogun32

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 8, 2019
Messages
7,215
Reaction score
4,097
Location
Northern VA
First Name
Matt
Vehicle(s)
2019 GT+PP, SS+1LE, 2020 F150
Vehicle Showcase
2
Its really interesting to see how a rear weight bias, mid engine setup with a DCT can affect the performance to this extend.
It's simple physics and not the least bit surprising. Hell, the C8 running all-season tires would probably still beat a Z06 on slicks. (kidding, doubtful, statement made for effect)
 

ALUSA

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 13, 2017
Messages
555
Reaction score
178
Location
Plainfield, IL
First Name
AL
Vehicle(s)
2015 Mustang GTPP, 2017 Cadillac CTS 2.0T AWD
It's simple physics and not the least bit surprising. Hell, the C8 running all-season tires would probably still beat a Z06 on slicks. (kidding, doubtful, statement made for effect)
I am also leaning towards that the lt2 engine is underrated and the loss from the drivetrain is minimal due to the mid engine setup. Other mid engine supercars do put nice numbers with lighter weight and awd but also lower torque values. The pushrod lt2 may have a low and midrange torque advantage which helps off the line and corner acceleration tremendously.
 

Andy13186

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 19, 2018
Messages
1,460
Reaction score
505
Location
Florida
Vehicle(s)
2018 Mustang GT 10speed
I am also leaning towards that the lt2 engine is underrated and the loss from the drivetrain is minimal due to the mid engine setup. Other mid engine supercars do put nice numbers with lighter weight and awd but also lower torque values. The pushrod lt2 may have a low and midrange torque advantage which helps off the line and corner acceleration tremendously.
In every single accelleration video on the street that Ive seen so far the c8 breaks traction almost immediately and TCS kicks in. It wont do these advertised numbers unless on a prepped drag strip. And I dont think there is any way its going to run 10's in the 1/4 stock but I suppose we will have to see.
 

Cardude99

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 14, 2016
Messages
2,476
Reaction score
1,052
Location
Phoenix, AZ
First Name
Sam
Vehicle(s)
2018 Ecoboost
In every single accelleration video on the street that Ive seen so far the c8 breaks traction almost immediately and TCS kicks in. It wont do these advertised numbers unless on a prepped drag strip. And I dont think there is any way its going to run 10's in the 1/4 stock but I suppose we will have to see.
In all fairness there are not many videos out yet and we don't know who is driving any of the cars.
 

jake_zx2

Banned
Banned
Joined
Jun 19, 2016
Messages
2,305
Reaction score
1,386
Location
Texas
Vehicle(s)
Kona Blue 2018 GT
Vehicle Showcase
1
I just read an interview where a guy stated that the C8 Z51 outperforms the C7 Z06 in every measurable way. The guy who said this? The guy who led the development of both cars. :shock:. I’m REALLY starting to see a C8 3LT Z51 in my future..
Same here... if no manual, then a used one for a couple years until I get bored with the auto. If manual, then I'll buy new


He also confirmed that MT was designed out and that the car was for all intents and purposes shrink wrapped around the DCT.
I don't understand this corporate rhetoric that has been being used. Manual transmissions are generally smaller and lighter than DCTs, they don't need a "tunnel" for linkage as cable linkage is a thing, and we've determined over on the Corvette forum that the C8 footwell is actually wider than that of the C7, so there's ample room for a hydraulic OR digital clutch pedal

I went back and read some of the comments of people who were in attendance at the interview and they say that Ed later qualified his statements a bit by stating that the mid-engine design eliminates the traction issue that C7 Z06 has. Basically, for C7, traction limits the car’s ability to put ALL the power down until the car reaches 90 - 100 mph. With so much mass over the rear axle, C8 Z51 does not have that problem and just runs away from Z06. By the time Z06 hits 90 - 100, it has a lot of ground to make up to catch a C8 Z51. This leads me to believe Z51 will clip the quarter first but Z06 will trap faster.
This is exactly why I'm saying that I think the Vette will even be faster than a GT500 on track. Maybe not in the 1/4 mile, but on track where straightaways aren't as long and corner exit speed means EVERYTHING when it comes to getting down a straight fast, the C8 will definitely have an edge

In every single accelleration video on the street that Ive seen so far the c8 breaks traction almost immediately and TCS kicks in. It wont do these advertised numbers unless on a prepped drag strip. And I dont think there is any way its going to run 10's in the 1/4 stock but I suppose we will have to see.
This is the case with just about any performance cars. How many 2018 GTs have you really seen lay down sub-4 second 0-60 times on the street?

No manufacturer claims acceleration times "on the street", because that's illegal to perform in most cases, so it's pointless to advertise
 

Advertisement





 
213 - Auto Mafia Racing


Advertisement
Top