Kuhmo 730s vs Supercar 3Rs

[NightmareMoon]

This may be counterintuitive, but can this actually be a result of too much pressure? I was thinking about it over weekend while rotating my tires. If you have track level camber (over -2.5 deg) and too much pressure, the tire could actually "ride" more on the inner side. With 0 camber, you would wear the middle part, but as you add more negative camber, that kinda shifts to inner side. Just my theory and thoughts so far, maybe I'm imagining things, but I got similar wear pattern after driving for 6 hours on a highway with overinflated wheels.

No with too little pressure the sidewalls are the only thing providing real pushback, so wear will be on the edges.

Before I follow up on the statement about significant wear from 6 hours of higheay driving, you didn’t answer any of my 3 related questions. Pointless to guess at it without data.

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[SVO MkII]

Same pressures, same alignment as the 3Rs. If I buy any more track tires for this car, they will be the 3Rs.

 

[tosha]

No with too little pressure the sidewalls are the only thing providing real pushback, so wear will be on the edges.

Before I follow up on the statement about significant wear from 6 hours of higheay driving, you didn’t answer any of my 3 related questions. Pointless to guess at it without data.

I understand what too little pressure does to tires, that wasn't my question . I'm describing an opposite scenario when tires are overinflated - that normally causes excessive wear in the middle of a tire. if you add a lot of negative camber, wouldn't that wear shift towards the inner edge?

please disregard my mention of highway driving and wear, I understand what happened in my specific case and mentioned it just for context.

 

[mavisky]

Same pressures, same alignment as the 3Rs. If I buy any more track tires for this car, they will be the 3Rs.

Good decision. The V730 is not suitable for track day duty on cars that are 3500+ lbs in my opinion. They come up to temp great for me over 6 autocross runs, but in a couple of laps on track they would start to do all sorts of weirdness I'm sure.

 

[NightmareMoon]

I understand what too little pressure does to tires, that wasn't my question . I'm describing an opposite scenario when tires are overinflated - that normally causes excessive wear in the middle of a tire. if you add a lot of negative camber, wouldn't that wear shift towards the inner edge?

please disregard my mention of highway driving and wear, I understand what happened in my specific case and mentioned it just for context.

You still havent given any more data on your situation. Grasping (badly) and theoretical possibilities isn’t helpful at all. The answer is usually going to be “it depends” or “its complicated” In general the lressure will allow more parts of the tire to take load, but you’re really gonna have to ask a tire engineer, because tire internal design and construction matters a lot here.

Your tire looked like it had tons of tread in the middle of the tire, and bald on both edges (worse in the inside, yes) so that tells me possibly too little pressure for that tire. Bald on one edge only - maybe incorrect camber, but I’d like more info on your alignment too, whats the last time it was checked and what were the numbers? Also whats the last time the suspension was inspected? Bad parts can cause extreme wear (from dynamic toe) which can do that sort of thing.

What pressures were you running?

 

[tosha]

Your tire looked like it had tons of tread in the middle of the tire, and bald on both edges (worse in the inside, yes) so that tells me possibly too little pressure for that tire. Bald on one edge only - maybe incorrect camber, but I’d like more info on your alignment too, whats the last time it was checked and what were the numbers? Also whats the last time the suspension was inspected? Bad parts can cause extreme wear (from dynamic toe) which can do that sort of thing.

What pressures were you running?

I guess I understand now, where the confusion is coming from - I am not the OP and pictured tire is not mine . I'm just sharing thoughts and guesses on the topic.

as far as my setup, I suspect that my last alignment was messed up a bit, so as I said you can disregard my highway wear comment. I need that crossed out first. my car suspension gets regularly inspected for HPDE events.

 

[NightmareMoon]

I guess I understand now, where the confusion is coming from - I am not the OP and pictured tire is not mine . I'm just sharing thoughts and guesses on the topic.

as far as my setup, I suspect that my last alignment was messed up a bit, so as I said you can disregard my highway wear comment. I need that crossed out first. my car suspension gets regularly inspected for HPDE events.

Oh ya sorry had you confused with the OP there Mr Thread Hijacker

 

[SVO MkII]

And my original questions was this:

"I'm curious if there is anyone else out there who has used both of these tires (Goodyear Supercar 3R and Kuhmo 730) for HPDE, and what their experiences and/or observations are?"

I'd still be curious if there is anyone with HPDE experience, using BOTH of these tires, and whether they noticed any material differences in wear, when all other variables remained the same.

Thanks.

 

[TeeLew]

That tire to me looks as if it was the _inside_ tire on a car which was understeering in a long duration corner. If you're going through a long corner and have a lot of wheel in the car, it's really easy to wipe the extreme inner edge of the inside tire, because you're dragging it across the pavement.

Generally, if you're cording the outside tire, it will be on the outside shoulder and the entire tire will show U/S. The rest of that tire looks pristine so that's why I don't think it's due to what's happening to it when it's the loaded tire in the corner.

How hard do you use the ABS? Could you be getting a bunch of minor locks which are hurting the tire? Because there's plenty of meat in the middle of the tire and wear on the edges, that would make you ask if it had enough pressure. It's not an absolute, but an observation. If this were a street tire, I'd say look at toe, but it's mate would be worn the exact same way, which I assume is not.

It's really tough to say why you got that wear with any certainty, but that's what I see.

 

[Flyhalf]

TW doesn't mean anything these days. Unfortunately.
Is hard to summarize categories but we could say
There are 4 major street tires categories for track usage.
Depending about speed and wearing. And whats your goal
I
1. Super fast 100tw. Where 3R is the king and still the fastest street tire available . 3-4 days max if well rotated. It Suffers too much camber in the inside. Awful with cold temp and rain.
I put here also the pirelli trofeo (although they are 60tw)
2. Superfast 200tw. a052 ,RE71RS, v720, 1.5RIVAL ,CR-S,FALKEN rt660 ,v730, cup2 (in order of performance in laptime)
Those are slighty behind 3R but ready to go after halflap (and often selcted for time trials for this reason) and some of them (a052 re71rs especially) not bad in light rain and wet. Longer lasting but hero lap just 1 or 2 session.

3.endurance tires. This vary between 40 and 200 and have tires like Conti 200tw, RS4, nitto nt01, toyo RR. Those are for consistency and great wearing. Seconds behind the pace of the faster 2 groups.
Long lasting (up to a season)
4. In between the 200tw endurance and 200tw performance. Like the new nexgen. Or the supercar3 or the nankang AR1



All the tires tends to perform well with 32psi hot.

The faster you go the more important to check constantly allignment
Hope this help
Have fun and be safe
alessandro

 

[SVO MkII]

That tire to me looks as if it was the _inside_ tire on a car which was understeering in a long duration corner. If you're going through a long corner and have a lot of wheel in the car, it's really easy to wipe the extreme inner edge of the inside tire, because you're dragging it across the pavement.

Generally, if you're cording the outside tire, it will be on the outside shoulder and the entire tire will show U/S. The rest of that tire looks pristine so that's why I don't think it's due to what's happening to it when it's the loaded tire in the corner.

How hard do you use the ABS? Could you be getting a bunch of minor locks which are hurting the tire? Because there's plenty of meat in the middle of the tire and wear on the edges, that would make you ask if it had enough pressure. It's not an absolute, but an observation. If this were a street tire, I'd say look at toe, but it's mate would be worn the exact same way, which I assume is not.

It's really tough to say why you got that wear with any certainty, but that's what I see.

I appreciate the thoughts, but it was the outside tire, and I experienced no such issues with the 3R. So my question still stands for anyone who has track experience with BOTH of these tires.

 

[TeeLew]

I think if anyone could give you a certain answer, they would. I guess you're the first guy in our little circle to run that combo. Different tires will certainly respond to different camber angles, but yours is so low, I don't know how we blame it for inside tire wear. IMO, look somewhere else.

 

[SVO MkII]

I think if anyone could give you a certain answer, they would. I guess you're the first guy in our little circle to run that combo. Different tires will certainly respond to different camber angles, but yours is so low, I don't know how we blame it for inside tire wear. IMO, look somewhere else.

Yep, I think you're right. However, if I didn't ask the question, I'd never know whether or not anyone else had an answer. But again, thanks for your help.

 

[TeeLew]

I wish I actually had some to give...

 

[shogun32]

I appreciate the thoughts, but it was the outside tire, and I experienced no such issues with the 3R. So my question still stands for anyone who has track experience with BOTH of these tires.

I don't have track time but the SC 3R (and 3) have VERY stiff sidewalls, vs the Kuhmo is modestly soft, not cup2 soft but is definitely pliable.

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