Is Ford lacking on performance?

[Silver Bullitt]

Hey Norm, you do what all is old farts do: Buy a Vette and avoid all of this! :lol:

I bought an '18 Vette. It's already gone and now I'm waiting on my '18 S550 PP2.

Sponsored

 

[Fatguy]

I bought an '18 Vette. It's already gone and now I'm waiting on my '18 S550 PP2.

Yes but the question remains: Are you an old fart? Your reply is only valid if you are an oldie farty guy... ;)

 

[millhouse]

So let's forget every single word everybody has typed about this to date. Here, elsewhere, even Ford's own announcements.

Suppose you're selling a car that's (obviously) got a base level suspension/wheel/tires/etc., and something called 'Performance Package' that's of somewhat higher performance potential. Your main competition also has a base level car, but its performance package is of significantly higher performance capability. Wouldn't you expect (or at least want) your officially-tagged 'Performance Package' to be closer to the competition's performance package than to its base-level? Wouldn't you want your PP to perform at a clear distance above the competition's base car, even if it doesn't quite match the other guy's PP?


Norm

That depends. If I could sell a lower level performance pack at a 30% clip and make a shit-ton of profit on said package, I would not care one bit how well it held up to the competitors performance package. I would only need it to hit my desired market segment....and obviously that likely means leaving out a very small portion of the population that cares about having the absolute best performing vehicle.

You see, you are mistakenly getting pride mixed up into this conversation.

 

[Silver Bullitt]

Yes but the question remains: Are you an old fart? Your reply is only valid if you are an oldie farty guy... ;)

I'm 55. My story isn't probably the norm. I had always wanted a Vette. I sold my '05 GTO in May'17 that I had since new as a down payment on the Vette. I ordered an '18 Grand Sport. Flew up to Bowling Green and did the whole museum delivery thing. I took delivery on 7/26/17 right before the plant shutdown for renovation. I drove it the 550 miles back home with a smile on my face the whole way. Five days later my oldest daughter passed away at age 25 after a lifelong battle with Cystic Fibrosis. The car sat for over a month. I drove it a few more times, but it just had a bad karma about it after that. I sold it last November. It didn't even have 1,000 miles on it. I enjoyed driving it, but I just didn't want it anymore.

In February of this year, I turned 55. I've missed my GTO, but not the Vette. My wife told me it was time I got another car. I decided she was right, but I decided I wanted a back seat again. That was about the only thing I didn't like about the Vette, but I just knew I didn't want another Vette. I know that probably has a lot of folks scratching their head on that one. I was thinking Mustang GT or an SS 1LE, but my younger daughter drives a 2011 Camaro, and I just don't like driving it with the poor visibility and the feel of confinement in the cabin. I test drove an '18 1LE first, and while I didn't mind it too bad, it just didn't have the WoW factor I was hoping for. They were really trying to sell it to me, but I had also wanted to drive a Mustang. I've just never been a Dodge guy, so the Challenger wasn't really even a consideration. When I drove the Mustang, it just felt right. It put a SEG on my face I couldn't wipe off. I went back and ordered an '18 GT PP2. I thought about a GT350, but I'm going to drive this car and enjoy it. I had my GTO 13 years and it had only 41K miles. I was afraid if I bought the GT350, I'd just want it to be another garage queen. So, 49 more days until the next chapter begins, and I can't wait!

 

[Fatguy]

I'm 55. My story isn't probably the norm. I had always wanted a Vette. I sold my '05 GTO in May'17 that I had since new as a down payment on the Vette. I ordered an '18 Grand Sport. Flew up to Bowling Green and did the whole museum delivery thing. I took delivery on 7/26/17 right before the plant shutdown for renovation. I drove it the 550 miles back home with a smile on my face the whole way. Five days later my oldest daughter passed away at age 25 after a lifelong battle with Cystic Fibrosis. The car sat for over a month. I drove it a few more times, but it just had a bad karma about it after that. I sold it last November. It didn't even have 1,000 miles on it. I enjoyed driving it, but I just didn't want it anymore.

In February of this year, I turned 55. I've missed my GTO, but not the Vette. My wife told me it was time I got another car. I decided she was right, but I decided I wanted a back seat again. That was about the only thing I didn't like about the Vette, but I just knew I didn't want another Vette. I know that probably has a lot of folks scratching their head on that one. I was thinking Mustang GT or an SS 1LE, but my younger daughter drives a 2011 Camaro, and I just don't like driving it with the poor visibility and the feel of confinement in the cabin. I test drove an '18 1LE first, and while I didn't mind it too bad, it just didn't have the WoW factor I was hoping for. They were really trying to sell it to me, but I had also wanted to drive a Mustang. I've just never been a Dodge guy, so the Challenger wasn't really even a consideration. When I drove the Mustang, it just felt right. It put a SEG on my face I couldn't wipe off. I went back and ordered an '18 GT PP2. I thought about a GT350, but I'm going to drive this car and enjoy it. I had my GTO 13 years and it had only 41K miles. I was afraid if I bought the GT350, I'd just want it to be another garage queen. So, 49 more days until the next chapter begins, and I can't wait!

First of all, condolences on the lost of your daughter.


Secondly, I’m 58 so I guess you are old enough for your comments to have validity amongst us older guys.


Ok, I understand why you came to Mustang world. I’ve been driving Mustangs for almost 20 years now. 2 5.0s and now this V6 (which as a DD and I actually love!). Anyway I thought I had aggressive cancer so I planned to get my Corvette and enjoy it before surgery and chemo made that impossible. The car was this new Z06 in black. Turns out I don't have cancer or anything else so I ditched the purchase and continue to drive the Mustang as I still have things to do.

There is more to life than cars. Some of the arguments here are over the top but they mattered when I was young and the car you drove made your identity. Older guys are identified by their accomplishments in life and the car frenzy is just nostalgic fun.

I now have more important things to do on the altruistic front (at the UN of all places) than spend it on cars. But that’s just me at the present moment.



Everyone else chill... :ford:

 

[Hi-PO Stang]

Ford has had episodes of producing great cars in the past that did not live up to my performance expectations. Two examples were the second generation Thunderbird and Mercury Marauder. They both should have had twice the horsepower they had. I am starting to feel Ford may be letting other manufacturers take the lead in performance.

 

[Trackaholic]

I now have more important things to do on the altruistic front (at the UN of all places) than spend it on cars. But that’s just me at the present moment.

Very little is more altruistic that buying cars and keeping all those workers gainfully employed.

At least that's what I keep trying to tell myself....


Also, I think Ford is fine putting their top performance features on the GT350 which seems to be right there with the 1LE in performance. Eventually the GT500 will be available, at which point the ZL1 will have some competition.

I do think Ford also leaves some track performance on the table in order to provide some niches for the aftermarket to fill. GM tends to go all out from the factory (at least in recent years).

I think we will know a lot more if we ever see a review of the PP2 option package on the Mustang.

-T

 

[jake_zx2]

Ford has had episodes of producing great cars in the past that did not live up to my performance expectations. Two examples were the second generation Thunderbird and Mercury Marauder. They both should have had twice the horsepower they had. I am starting to feel Ford may be letting other manufacturers take the lead in performance.

The Thunderbird was an excellent car that people passed poor judgement onto because "it didn't have enough power"...

Hint, the thunderbird was never a "raw horsepower" kind of car. It's a well balanced roadster, and it did excellent at that. It was essentially a Jaguar XJR with a better looking skin.

 

[Norm Peterson]

In the UK "base" is PP1.

As I think it could have been on this side of the pond.

Like I've said at least once, a GT/PP2 is a short-list line item.


Norm

 

[Norm Peterson]

Hey Norm, you do what all us old farts do: Buy a Vette and avoid all of this! :lol:

It's crossed my mind. I've actually driven a Z51-equipped 7th gen on a road course (very briefly, but enough to be seriously impressed). Maybe if the market wasn't in the middle of such a bumpy ride I'd pull out more than the minimum required distribution.


Norm

 

[Brian_S550]

Ford has had episodes of producing great cars in the past that did not live up to my performance expectations. Two examples were the second generation Thunderbird and Mercury Marauder. They both should have had twice the horsepower they had. I am starting to feel Ford may be letting other manufacturers take the lead in performance.

You think it was feasible for either of those two cars to leave the factory with ~600 HP... back in 2003?

 

[jake_zx2]

As I think it could have been on this side of the pond.

And then you'd bitch when GTs cost as much over here as they do across the pond.

Plus, over there, people actually buy cars that fit their needs... so, when they buy a sports car, they buy it for sporting purposes. People don't do that in America, and that's why you see SO many base mustangs. Without the base model, U.S. sales would fall dramatically.

Having PP1 as the base is an absolutely awful idea. Besides, your largest gripe seems to be that the PP1 doesn't perform (in your eyes) as well as it should. So, tell me, what would making it the base model change?

 

[Norm Peterson]

That depends. If I could sell a lower level performance pack at a 30% clip and make a shit-ton of profit on said package, I would not care one bit how well it held up to the competitors performance package. I would only need it to hit my desired market segment....and obviously that likely means leaving out a very small portion of the population that cares about having the absolute best performing vehicle.

IOW, knowingly and actively choose to abandon that niche. Not even provide an OE option for those people.

I'll bet that die-hard fans of the GT500 feel much the same way about the way their performance preference has been on hold for a few years, just that they aren't active in this thread.


Norm

 

[UAmach1]

You think it was feasible for either of those two cars to leave the factory with ~600 HP... back in 2003?

LOL Yeah, Agreed.

Personally I think the Thunderbird with a manual would have helped sales, as the auto in it really held it back, and the Marauder while it was huge and DID have their best NA 4/6 at the time should have perhaps come with 96-98 Cobra intake cams for a bit more power to get that extra weight moving. I don't see a manual helping that car much. Grant it, the Marauder wasn't intended to be a performance car, more a throaty, more powerful, "move the family while looking bad ass" car. Maybe a gear change could have helped it?

 

[jake_zx2]

Not even provide an OE option for those people

GT350
GT350R
GT500
GT500R
PP2

put it in big, bright letters so you didn't miss it again

LOL Yeah, Agreed.

Personally I think the Thunderbird with a manual would have helped sales, as the auto in it really held it back

x100000 on this. that car should have been offered in a manual, but it's still a great car nonetheless

Sponsored