is -.30 total rear toe too much?

[Voodooo]

1.50* (degrees) is also 1* 30' (degrees & minutes)

GT350 caster 6.83*
R caster 6.92*

83 & 92 seems random but converted to degrees and minutes: 6* 50' & 6* 55'

0.26* is 1/8" or 0.125" on GT350 size tire or about 1/16 per side.

0.30* is 0.145" or 5/32" or 9/64" depending on how retarded someone wants to be about it.

3mm is about 0.25* or about 1.5mm per side.
3.6mm is about 0.30* or about 1.8mm per side.

**All subject to my melted brain remembering correctly.

Exactly

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[Stuntman]

1.50* (degrees) is also 1* 30' (degrees & minutes)

GT350 caster 6.83*
R caster 6.92*

83 & 92 seems random but converted to degrees and minutes: 6* 50' & 6* 55'

0.26* is 1/8" or 0.125" on GT350 size tire or about 1/16 per side.

0.30* is 0.145" or 5/32" or 9/64" depending on how retarded someone wants to be about it.

3mm is about 0.25* or about 1.5mm per side.
3.6mm is about 0.30* or about 1.8mm per side.

**All subject to my melted brain remembering correctly.

If I wanted to be obnoxious, I would ask: for what wheel diameter? (since the measurement of toe will vary with wheel diameter).

 

[Ctease]

If I wanted to be obnoxious, I would ask: for what wheel diameter? (since the measurement of toe will vary with wheel diameter).

If I wanted to be obnoxious, I would say: read again. (since I wrote "GT350 size tire")

 

[Stuntman]

If I wanted to be obnoxious, I would say: read again. (since I wrote "GT350 size tire")

Touche

 

[Zitrosounds]

You guys using the alignment racks are wasting time. Why not string your car and check it yourself. I can't stand when people think that the latest and most advanced equipment is the best when in reality it's not. Sometimes reinventing the wheel is a waste of time.
The only advantage of laser alignment racks are set up times. They are only as good as the person using them.

I prefer strings and a smart level or smart camber gauge over lasers any day.

I am most definitely not wasting time. In fact, I gain time by having the shop align for me vs me doing it at home. I have 3 kids ages 10, 8 and 4. I love my cars and staying under the hood but my family comes first, toys second.

 

[Zitrosounds]

Doing your own alignment or putting it on the rack yields similar results but both to me are not very accurate and that is why the tolerances are established. Had my vehicle alignment verified after the first alignment and the concern of total rear toe of -.30 toe out. I measured and had toe in even though the alignment sheet had -.30. Second time around and the rear now had .11 total toe in lol. It just so happened that the rear toe sensors needed recalibrating. Rear set up after recal is .31 toe in. Oh! One more thing. Tq'ing the rear inboard camber bolt on the driver side is a son of a BIACH!!! Fuel line makes it really dificult

 

[Voodooo]

I am most definitely not wasting time. In fact, I gain time by having the shop align for me vs me doing it at home. I have 3 kids ages 10, 8 and 4. I love my cars and staying under the hood but my family comes first, toys second.

I apologize I didn't mean that in a disgraceful way. What I mean is some people think just because something's are new and improved that it's better than the old fashioned way. Sorry if I offended you.

 

[Stuntman]

Doing your own alignment or putting it on the rack yields similar results but both to me are not very accurate and that is why the tolerances are established. Had my vehicle alignment verified after the first alignment and the concern of total rear toe of -.30 toe out. I measured and had toe in even though the alignment sheet had -.30. Second time around and the rear now had .11 total toe in lol. It just so happened that the rear toe sensors needed recalibrating. Rear set up after recal is .31 toe in. Oh! One more thing. Tq'ing the inboard camber bolt on the driver side is a son of a BIACH!!! Fuel line makes it really dificult

Great to hear you found the problem, your personal measurements were correct, and you dialed in the recommended amount of rear toe.

To answer your OP, 0.30 toe in is not too much. I wouldn't go more and if you want the car to be a little more nimble/less stable on-center, reduce mid-corner understeer, and increase fuel economy, you can drop your rear toe-in to 0.20 or so. I would consider going to a different alignment shop.

 

[Zitrosounds]

I apologize I didn't mean that in a disgraceful way. What I mean is some people think just because something's are new and improved that it's better than the old fashioned way. Sorry if I offended you.

Scott, no apologies necessary. I understand your position. Laser alignments are not perfect and my experience is a great example. Most things i do on my own and also teach the kids a little. Alignments however are tedious and time consuming.

 

[Norm Peterson]

The real question Is how does toe-in and toe-out change the handling of the car?

Positive toe is toe-in, negative toe is therefore a negative amount of toe-in, or toe out.

The effects are summarized here ( http://iracing.wikidot.com/components:toe-in-toe-out )

and by the below quote taken from here ( http://en.intraxracing.nl/techniek/camber,-caster,-toe-intoe-out/ ) . . . a Netherlands company claiming F1 experience, spelling errors theirs.

TOE-IN / TOE-OUT
Affects 3 majore areas; Tire wear, straight-line stability and corner entry handling.

For minimum tire-wear it would be ideal to have the wheels parralel / 0 degrees while riding.
This can be acomplished to give a bit static toe-out to a frontwheel-drive car, or toe-in to a rearwheel-driver.
A frontwheel-drive car has the tendency to understeer.
Toe-out will induce a bit of oversteer, so it could compensate the frontwheel-driver's understeer.

Excessive toe-in will cause the tire to scrub on the outboards and so will shorten the tire-life.
Too much toe-out will cause the inboard edges to wear out.

Steering response will be improved with toe-out.
Straight line stability will be improved with toe-in.

Sometimes toe-in or toe-out is used for another effect; Tire-temperature.
For racing-tires it's very important to reach a certain temperature in order to deliver maximum performance/gripp.
If the tires stay too cool than toe can be used for the "scrubbing" efect,
The scrubbing also has another positive effect; It will scrub the tires clean providing extra gripp for braking and cornering.

Street cars often are set up with toe-in; For good straight-line stability cornering is sacrefied.
Race cars are often set up with toe-out; Straight-line stability is sacrisfied for good cornering.


If the suspension is independent; Toe-in or -out can also be applied to the rear-wheels. The effect on the rear-wheels is generaly the same as on the front.

Front toe-out is twitchy, rear toe-out is even less stable because your steering inputs do not directly affect the directions that the rear wheels point in.


Norm

 

[Voodooo]

On my GT350 using 305/30zr19 pilot sport cup2 on all 4 corners my alignment settings are
Front:
-2.0 camber
0 toe
Front sway bar adjustment is at the center hole.
Tire psi is at 28 cold.

Rear:
-1.7 camber
0 toe
Rear sway bar adjustment is at the softest setting.
Tire psi is at 28 cold.

Adjustments were made with my 175 pound body weight in the driver seat.
I have no rubber suspension bushings at all, everything is bearing or solid aluminum bushing.

 

[Zitrosounds]

On my GT350 using 305/30zr19 pilot sport cup2 on all 4 corners my alignment settings are
Front:
-2.0 camber
0 toe
Front sway bar adjustment is at the center hole.
Tire psi is at 28 cold.

Rear:
-1.7 camber
0 toe
Rear sway bar adjustment is at the softest setting.
Tire psi is at 28 cold.

Adjustments were made with my 175 pound body weight in the driver seat.
I have no rubber suspension bushings at all, everything is bearing or solid aluminum bushing.

Scott, do you have an aftermarket camber arm or did you achieve that camber setting in the rear with the stock arm? If if the adjustment is with the stock arm, is the adjustment maxed out?

 

[Voodooo]

Scott, do you have an aftermarket camber arm or did you achieve that camber setting in the rear with the stock arm? If if the adjustment is with the stock arm, is the adjustment maxed out?

Stock rear arms at the time of alignment. But I now have the new Steeda non adjustable arm. The camber is near maxed.

 

[BlkGT3]

On my GT350 using 305/30zr19 pilot sport cup2 on all 4 corners my alignment settings are
Front:
-2.0 camber
0 toe
Front sway bar adjustment is at the center hole.
Tire psi is at 28 cold.

Rear:
-1.7 camber
0 toe
Rear sway bar adjustment is at the softest setting.
Tire psi is at 28 cold.

Adjustments were made with my 175 pound body weight in the driver seat.
I have no rubber suspension bushings at all, everything is bearing or solid aluminum bushing.

Those solid bushings make a huge difference when aligning. Under braking the rear toe will stay relatively the same as static and there is no deflection caused by the OEM bushings. I would not recommend that rear toe on an OEM bushing car, might be a tad loose.

Peter

 

[Voodooo]

Those solid bushings make a huge difference when aligning. Under braking the rear toe will stay relatively the same as static and there is no deflection caused by the OEM bushings. I would not recommend that rear toe on an OEM bushing car, might be a tad loose.

Peter

I don't have oem bushings. Like I said I have bearings in all my suspension components. I replaced all the oem rubber with bearings front and rear. I also replaced the IRS cradle and differential rubber bushings with ford performance solid aluminum bushings.

I have delrin sway bar bushings front and rear, adjustable sway bars front and rear along with adjustable sway bar end links.

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