I guess the speed limiter wasnt working that day

[Tomster]

Wow, just wow.


Do yourself a favor and send these photos to the IMSA Michelin Engineers and post their response. That will help everybody. Please keep your personal attacks to yourself as you just might get embarrassed.

I've already spoken to the development team that worked with the sport cup 2 specific to Daytona. They were very helpful in recommending tire pressures and alignment settings based upon their development data.

Likewise, keep your personal attacks to yourself. Now expand upon your Comments or just simply go away. I can elaborate and comment on all your numbered points if you wish, but that won't go well for you. You see, I don't think you know what you are talking about pertaining to this subject matter.

I have consulted with professional race teams, I have talked with Michelin, and I have worked with many drivers who are very knowledgeable with the course.

It's amazing how helpful I found the community to be, unlike you.

Sponsored

 

[WCRookie99]

I've already spoken to the development team that worked with the sport cup 2 specific to Daytona. They were very helpful in recommending tire pressures and alignment settings based upon their development data.

Did you speak with them before or after?

If before, then what's their opinion of the photos after?
If before, what was their tire pressure and alignment recommendations? Because that didn't work.

If after, what's the new tire pressure and alignment settings?

Lastly, how many laps are on those tires as it doesn't look like very many.

Please answer so we all can learn.

 

[Tomster]

Did you speak with them before or after?

If before, then what's their opinion of the photos after?
If before, what was their tire pressure and alignment recommendations? Because that didn't work.

If after, what's the new tire pressure and alignment settings?

Tire pressures were exactly in the same range as they were year after year. This occurred at target hot of 38 psi. Alignment settings were the same as previous. Tire temps with a pyrometer were 160 and 150, inner vs outter. All measured consistently time and time again with a pyrometer. No significant uneven tread wear. I just had all 4 wheels off prior to the session and nothing was out of the ordinary.

I really don't think I need a Michelin engineer to go over the obvious. The tire had been performing exactly as it was supposed to up until the time of incident. No indicators of wear or damage, and then this.

So, I think you are trying to go fishing to reinforce your point (whatever that is).

The burden is on you. If you wish to go back and forth, please elaborate on each of your numbered points you posted before. I'd be happy to go over each if that's what you are here to do.

Is it your contention that the cup 2 does not belong on the Daytona speedway? It sure read like that from your previous post.....

 

[Tomster]

Fun times, until it's not. I'm just not a big fan of "street cars" running at these tracks with these speeds. Would rather see only Race Cars with Pro-support be allowed to rent the track and charge people to drive. (IMHO)

Why? because the normal weekend track warrior, just doesn't have the secret knowledge to safely run the cars. They may think they do but they don't.

This. If this is how you feel, you don't belong here.

Secret knowledge, lol

 

[WCRookie99]

Tire wear from a Expert like yourself should send huge red flags. Just not buying the bus stop theory. This looks like lap after lap of wear.

We're trying to learn something so relax.

How many laps on this tire?

 

[Tomster]

Tire wear from a Expert like yourself should send huge red flags. Just not buying the bus stop theory. This looks like lap after lap of wear.

We're trying to learn something so relax.

How many laps on this tire?

You aren't listening. I just had that tire off the car before this lap. No evidence of uneven wear. Temps and pressures all normal. Have you seen the enhanced bus stop rumble strips?

Nobody can say with absolute certainty of what caused this, but I can say with certainty that the tire was wearing perfectly up to that point. I dont just hop in the car and go.

Red flag? Yes. But before I start beating down doors at michelin, I plan to put the car back on the strings and look at the alignment settings. If all checks out, then I will pass this along to michelin to someone I know and see what they say.

The tire crew working the tire garage brought up the bus stop rumble strips before I mentioned it. Most likely cause is some form of damage which led to partial tread separation.

If you are running fast at Daytona, you have to take each 4 corners of the raised strips at the bus stop, like it or not. Induce one small tear In a soft compound tire, and this kind of damage is not surprising. I believe this is the most likely cause. Especially since the tire was found to be in exactly the correct state of wear compared to previous years comparison.

So all of this seems to be some form of internet keyboard commando racing? I've been doing this a long time and I have experimented with pressures and alignment settings and I know what works for me.

These aren't regular rumble strips

 

[WCRookie99]

You aren't listening. I just had that tire off the car before this lap. No evidence of uneven wear. Temps and pressures all normal. Have you seen the enhanced bus stop rumble strips?

Nobody can say with absolute certainty of what caused this, but I can say with certainty that the tire was wearing perfectly up to that point. I dont just hop in the car and go.

Red flag? Yes. But before I start beating down doors at michelin, I plan to put the car back on the strings and look at the alignment settings. If all checks out, then I will pass this along to michelin to someone I know and see what they say.

The tire crew working the tire garage brought up the bus stop rumble strips before I mentioned it. Most likely cause is some form of damage which led to partial tread separation.

If you are running fast at Daytona, you have to take each 4 corners of the raised strips at the bus stop, like it or not. Induce one small tear In a soft compound tire, and this kind of damage is not surprising. I believe this is the most likely cause. Especially since the tire was found to be in exactly the correct state of wear compared to previous years comparison.

So all of this seems to be some form of internet keyboard commando racing? I've been doing this a long time and I have experimented with pressures and alignment settings and I know what works for me.

These aren't regular rumble strips

Thank you. Those are absolutely new and very nasty. Nobody can drive on those for any extended time. Ok ok got it.

It will be interesting to watch this January, that changes everything.

 

[Tomster]

Thank you. Those are absolutely new and very nasty. Nobody can drive on those for any extended time. Ok ok got it.

It will be interesting to watch this January, that changes everything.

Since that photo was taken, they have added more (see screenshot from video in previous post). This is all thanks to when they opened up the Nascar drivers to the Rolex course. The Nascar guys would simply drive over the grass avoiding parts of the bus stop altogether.

If you didn't know, then maybe I can see your lack of understanding of how those things can be such a Hazzard.

I plan to re-string the car after the holidays, but I'd don't expect to find anything gross to cause this to happen. Again, the tire was wearing perfectly and Temps and pressures were all in normal parameters.

 

[The Chairman]

As a side comment, IMSA teams complained about those rumble strips at that location years ago. As I recall, Wayne Taylor Racing even pulled out of a race complaining that he couldn’t afford the damage tire failures were causing to his cars.
So this is not a new issue at Daytona. The Bus Stop is intended to slow the cars. But they really haven’t found the right combination.

 

[Tomster]

As a side comment, IMSA teams complained about those rumble strips at that location years ago. As I recall, Wayne Taylor Racing even pulled out of a race complaining that he couldn’t afford the damage tire failures were causing to his cars.
So this is not a new issue at Daytona. The Bus Stop is intended to slow the cars. But they really haven’t found the right combination.

Where were you several post ago, lol

 

[Epiphany]

Some good text and photos on the matter here.
https://www.thecheckeredflag.co.uk/...ed-to-daytona-rc-bus-stop-chicane-for-nascar/

Meanwhile, at Charlotte, they shitcanned a number of rumble strips. Brake failures tend to get attention...
https://sports.yahoo.com/nascar-remove-extra-rumble-strips-191129638.html

 

[The Chairman]

Where were you several post ago, lol

I wasn’t fast enough to keep up!!

 

[Tomster]

Here is a video of the tire.



At about :10, there is an inconsistent area compared to the rest of the lost tread area. It looks like a possible area of damage that might have caused the rest of the tread to separate. Hmm, I wonder what could have caused that?

Would these do it????? Lol

 

[MAGS1]

Here is a video of the tire.



At about :10, there is an inconsistent area compared to the rest of the lost tread area. It looks like a possible area of damage that might have caused the rest of the tread to separate. Hmm, I wonder what could have caused that?

That’s scary in any situation but especially at 160mph on a racetrack. Glad nothing catastrophic happened.

 

[Strokerswild]

As for the half shafts you mentioned, Ford simply doesn't use the correct grease. The solution to the problem is higher temp grease that can withstand the heat generated. To correct the problem, you need to take the half shafts off, remove the boots from the inner cv's and break the joint apart and rebuild with suitable grease. I'm not going to name the grease used because the guy who did it may not want me to share it.

It's time to do another rebuild on my half shafts. Enough time has gone by that it is prudent despite the temperatures remaining constant since they were installed. I was advised by an absolute expert to rebuild with krytox this time due to superior adhesion and drop point. I was told that is what most major race teams use. The downside? Cost. And that is probably why Ford doesn't use a grease more suitable. I believe this is for a few reasons..... first, this problem is mostly attributed to the rigors of Daytona. This doesn't happen much anywhere else. It is ny understanding that this is for several reasons. The big 2 are joint geometry going around the ovals as well as longer duration of foot on the floor driving. The joints get hot, grease melts, joint disintegrates.

While I am by no stretch of the explanation an expert on grease, Krytox came to mind immediately when you mentioned "suitable grease". We have used it to great effect on equipment in the workplace that generate more extreme conditions, and it remains viscous and lubricates properly. Gotta play, gotta pay.

Sponsored