Headers on procharged setup

[Roush05]

Hey guys, I have a procharger running about 13-14 psi. Ported 18 manifold and meth kit coming soon, and thinking about doing headers as well. I just had a couple questions about them. Not sure what kind of power gain they would make but I imagine I'd see boost drop a little bit due to the increased flow.

My current exhaust setup is stock manifolds with gutted cats, 3" ARH catback, and a couple resonators towards the back. It sounds pretty good from the back but when I'm sitting in it and crank it up it sounds pretty raspy (read: shitty imo) from the side. I'm wondering if that is due to the gutted cats but I really don't know. I'm just hoping for a little more aggressive sound and a cut down on the rasp. Do you think this would do the trick or would headers be likely to actually increase that rasp?

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[SheepDog]

The headers will only make the exhaust louder, and you will gain HP. You will see a "loss" in Boost pressure, but that is not a reflection of horsepower. The more efficiently the engine can move air, the more power it will make. If you want to smooth out the exhaust note, you need mufflers. You can always tell with these cars when someone is running just resonators or straight pipes, and IMHO they sound absolutely terrible. Also, running that much boost pressure on pump gas is pretty risky.

Tuning around a Water/meth system is even more risky. They work great until one day they don't. All it takes if for the system to run dry, or pop a fuse, or pump failure, and boom goes your motor. Or in my personal experience, one fateful night the controller will fail, trigger the pump, and fill the intercooler with fluid. Unknowingly, you will crank the motor over the following day and hydrolock the engine, bending a rod. Yeah it happened to me ( different car). Save your money, buy a proper fuel system, and run E85. To each his own, good luck with whatever you decide on. Also, if you do get headers, have them ceramic coated before installation. I went with Cerakote Glacier coating and the shit is truly amazing. If you want all the plastic bits, hoses, etc. in the engine bay to last, you need to control the under hood temps. I can drive the car for an hour, and within 3 minutes of shutting the engine off, I can touch the headers with my bare hands.

 

[Roush05]

I am aware of the flow vs boost, I was just typing as I thought. I agree on the exhaust issue. I guess solely for sound I should be looking at mufflers then?

What you have said about meth is true, but you are the first person that has said that to me that has actually had it happen. I also agree that 14 psi is too much for pump gas. I was initially using a wastegate but I never did get it quite right so I've removed it. I am thinking about going from a 3.2" pulley to a 3.4 to get the boost around 12 pounds and then using meth as a safety blanket.

 

[SheepDog]

I think ARH has mufflers for their systems, might give them a call and see what your options are. If you search other types of forums, you will see that many sad souls have suffered the Water/meth blues. Using water/meth just to cool the intake charge is fine, but when you are relying on it for additional fueling, it is only a matter of time before it goes tits up. By the time you get done buying a high quality Water/meth system, you are only a couple hundred away from a return fuel system. E85 and a proper tune to go with it will shock you at the performance difference you achieve. It's better for the engine than gasoline, its way cheaper than race gas, and your tuner will also provide a pump gas revision so you can switch back and forth if need be. Also, ethanol is made right here in the good ol' US of A. If you care about that sort of thing.

 

[Roush05]

I think ARH has mufflers for their systems, might give them a call and see what your options are. If you search other types of forums, you will see that many sad souls have suffered the Water/meth blues. Using water/meth just to cool the intake charge is fine, but when you are relying on it for additional fueling, it is only a matter of time before it goes tits up. By the time you get done buying a high quality Water/meth system, you are only a couple hundred away from a return fuel system. E85 and a proper tune to go with it will shock you at the performance difference you achieve. It's better for the engine than gasoline, its way cheaper than race gas, and your tuner will also provide a pump gas revision so you can switch back and forth if need be. Also, ethanol is made right here in the good ol' US of A. If you care about that sort of thing.

The only issue with E85 is that I live in a small town and the closest station that has E85 is about an hour away. I may be able to find someone to sell it to my by the barrel and find a way to pump it but that would be a lot of trouble for me. Otherwise I'd love to go the E85 route. That's why I've been looking at the meth route. Boostane gets really expensive over time.

 

[SheepDog]

I hear ya, its too bad E85 isn't more available. Big oil companies don't like competition. A fuel source that is completely renewable, sustainable, and better for the environment is bad for business. I think when I was on the meth, it was around 8-10 bucks a gallon. Obviously you would be mixing that 50/50 with distilled water, but that adds up quickly too. Another thing to consider with meth is that if you plan on running at a race track, some places won't allow it at all due to the fire danger, and other places will require that you have an external cutoff switch.

 

[Roush05]

I hear ya, its too bad E85 isn't more available. Big oil companies don't like competition. A fuel source that is completely renewable, sustainable, and better for the environment is bad for business. I think when I was on the meth, it was around 8-10 bucks a gallon. Obviously you would be mixing that 50/50 with distilled water, but that adds up quickly too. Another thing to consider with meth is that if you plan on running at a race track, some places won't allow it at all due to the fire danger, and other places will require that you have an external cutoff switch.

Isn't meth at 50/50 no longer flammable? I street drive my car and I imagine my use of the meth would be fairly low. Just tinkering now that I have another car to DD.

Yeah, I agree. I'd really love to get a fore system and E85 but it just isn't feasible unless i move.

 

[SheepDog]

Isn't meth at 50/50 no longer flammable? I street drive my car and I imagine my use of the meth would be fairly low. Just tinkering now that I have another car to DD.

Yeah, I agree. I'd really love to get a fore system and E85 but it just isn't feasible unless i move.

yes that's right, however you can't use it as supplemental fuel at that concentration. If you are going to tune for the additional fuel, increase the timing etc, it needs to be 90-100% meth. Otherwise you are just using it to cool the intake air which is safer anyway, but the power increase will be modest. Also, with an engine this size, you will need some big nozzles and a big tank.

 

[Roush05]

Well..to be honest you're making me rethink my approach. What if instead of intake manifold,meth,headers I go with manifold, pulley swap, headers+exhaust? Dropping to ~12 pounds should make the engine able to add back in the timing I am currently losing and the addition of manifold and headers may even drop me down to 10 psi or so with a decent 50-75 rwhp gain. Do you think that sounds like a better overall plan?

 

[SheepDog]

I think that is a much better plan. I've read too many horror stories (and been one of them) to ever recommend that anyone use methanol injection on a DD. Now if your building a balls to the wall race car- go for it. Spending the money and time just to use it as a means of cooling the intake air a few degrees really isn't worth the expense. The intake manifold and headers (along with a new tune) will give you a nice bump in power. You can always throw in some torco/boostane once in a while and the computer will add a little timing. Hopefully you are using a reputable tuner, and I would highly recommend talking to them about the changes you intend to make first. You may not even need a larger pulley once the intake and headers are on there, but that's an easy swap if the datalogs are telling you that you need to dial it back a little bit.

 

[olaosunt]

How much power do you expect to gain with headers over stock manifolds since you already deleted the cats ?

 

[Roush05]

I think that is a much better plan. I've read too many horror stories (and been one of them) to ever recommend that anyone use methanol injection on a DD. Now if your building a balls to the wall race car- go for it. Spending the money and time just to use it as a means of cooling the intake air a few degrees really isn't worth the expense. The intake manifold and headers (along with a new tune) will give you a nice bump in power. You can always throw in some torco/boostane once in a while and the computer will add a little timing. Hopefully you are using a reputable tuner, and I would highly recommend talking to them about the changes you intend to make first. You may not even need a larger pulley once the intake and headers are on there, but that's an easy swap if the datalogs are telling you that you need to dial it back a little bit.

I was kind of thinking about not needing a larger pulley but I wasn't sure. Yeah, I have shot him a text and I'll probably talk with him on the phone sometime tomorrow. This isn't going to be a DD anymore since I have another car to drive finally, but it isn't going to be a race car either. More of a project/fun car.


edit @olaosunt: I actually have no idea what the gains would be, if any. google searching has been limited.

 

[whatsup62]

Unless you are shifting at 6200 rpm that 3.2" is a waste and probably hurting you.... do the math..... https://www.928motorsports.com/services/impeller-speed-calculator.php

 

[beefcake]

with gutted cats probably another 10-15 depending on hp level. you'll get more sound as well.

we have some nice setups starting complete with lead pipes for under 800

Terry "Beefcake" Reeves
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Owner Team Beefcake - 20+ Years Experience
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[SheepDog]

Unless you are shifting at 6200 rpm that 3.2" is a waste and probably hurting you.... do the math..... https://www.928motorsports.com/services/impeller-speed-calculator.php

Not if he is on an HO setup. The 3.2 inch pulley in conjunction with the OEM balancer spins the blower right at Max recommended speed at around 7300 RPM engine speed.

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