GT500 vs It's competitors: Is it really overprice ?

[Gogoggansgo]

and i had a honda that will smoke all of them for 1/4 the price. the fact you only see it as a straight line car, and ONLY care about the 1/4 ET per $, the car isnt meant for you.Mustang GT and works a Dodge plant? no signs of bridge dwelling there

you’re pretty retarded if you only saw that as my main argument

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[martinjlm]

interesting, so all 3 of you cars have rear seats.. even your toy? fantastic

The 2017 Camaro was purchased after considering 2017 Grand Sport convertible, 2017 Z06 convertible and 2017 ZL1 convertible. Why did I choose it over the Grand Sport or the Z06? Had N-O-T-H-I-N-G to do with back seats. I don’t like the way C7 convertibles look with the top up. That’s it. End of story. My requirements were for a V8 convertible that handles well enough to take to the road course. Period.

Even though all our cars have back seats, we don’t use them. Our kids are grown and have their own cars. The SRX is good for trips. That’s the only time they get used. Wait... I stand corrected. We also use the back seat of the SRX to take our German Shepherd to the dog park.

you say that here and now, but your actions and purchases all have something in common.. backseats

I’m done

 

[millhouse]

Would you say its unjustly compared to those cars, by segment and price? Or is it so good, its punching above its weightclass?

Damnit man you make it difficult to quote.

It’s not punching above its weight class…It has transcended to another class altogether.

Ok, so compare the C8 to a 720 McClaren. its only a price difference at that point right, its much much closer to being similar in every regard. but the performance #s are what we want to compare-- so the better performer is the better purchase

I’m curious as to why you are bringing up a vehicle that costs 5 times more than the vehicles we are talking about into this conversation.

negatory- at this price point the seats become a much larger issue. those that can afford it, are asking if they are getting value from the car. value as in, can they use it when they want to, can they use it for more than a racing. How many people buy a brand new car just for racing? rhetorical of course. how many people buy a car for nostalgia, racing, carshows, or general self fulfilmment.. the sales #s reflect that of base vs CFTP.

This is where you and I disagree on nearly everything. I pose this valid question to you. What age range is typically associated with the average NEW corvette buyer? And the follow up question, why do you think the age group associated with the corvette doesn’t care about rear seats?

Now take those key examples and apply them to the GT500 and you’ll finally see my point. Most GT500 buyers are either going to not care about rear seats (because their children are grown and gone), or they won’t care about seats because this won’t be their daily driver. The price of the GT500 dictates this more than anything else. You are in the minority here. If seats were such a huge issue in this price point, the corvette would have been terminated long ago.

you again are missing the point, Daily driver, no. family vehices, yes. start a poll, who is getting one, how many family members they have. then you may finally see

And again, nothing I have seen leads me to believe you are in the majority here. The price of these vehicles are in the same realm as the corvette….where people don’t give a rats @ss about back seats. Most of these cars are going to be optioned in the $75k to $85k range. You’re nuts if you think most people are going to be daily driving these and using them for transporting their children and coworkers.

 

[shogun32]

you can get damn near the same if not faster “straight line” performance out of boosting a gen 3 car

except those who want (trying to be/identifying as) sports cars don't give a shit about how fast it goes in a straight line. We care how fast it can string complex curves together.

The GT500 is a direct response to legacy (aka history) and a counterpoint to the ZL1. The 1LE-equipped Camaros are giving GT350s fits on the track and since there is a hole in the product line (no FI car), voila GT500. It looks like Ford rewrote the GT500 playbook from only any good in a straight line, to handles almost as good as a GT350 but with *MORE POWER*!!! Kudos. Now can we please have some published benchmarks already?

The C8 is GM's "oh, so Ford, you think your nascent sports cars (GT350) can compete now? How about them apples? And we can do the GT at 1/3 of the price. Have a nice day, punk"

I would submit "just good enough" has been the Big3 ethos for 50 years. There are good arguments both pro and con. I thank the Germans and Japanese for repeatedly kicking US ass and forcing Detroit to muster up some pride.

There are no "muscle" cars anymore (big motor, can't corner worth shit) except perhaps the Dodge and Nissan Skyline. The Mustang, even the EB is a sports car no different than the M2 or A4. The GT350 definitely so. Albeit the entire platform saddled by "just good enough" engineering and nearsighted vision. Should Ford get out of it's own way and produce a modern chassis (nee GM Alpha, Audi, Tesla, Mazda) then the battle will be truly joined.

 

[Hack]

except those who want (trying to be/identifying as) sports cars don't give a shit about how fast it goes in a straight line. We care how fast it can string complex curves together.

The GT500 is a direct response to legacy (aka history) and a counterpoint to the ZL1. The 1LE-equipped Camaros are giving GT350s fits on the track and since there is a hole in the product line (no FI car), wahla GT500. It looks like Ford rewrote the GT500 playbook from only any good in a straight line, to handles almost as good as a GT350 but with *MORE POWER*!!! Kudos. Now can we please have some published benchmarks already?

The C8 is GM's "oh, so Ford, you think your nascent sports cars (GT350) can compete now? How about them apples, now? And we can do the GT at a 1/3 of the price. Have a nice day, punk"

I would submit "just good enough" has been the Big3 ethos for 50 years. There are good arguments both pro and con. I thank the Germans and Japanese for repeatedly kicking US ass and forcing Detroit to muster up some pride.

There are no "muscle" cars anymore (big motor, can't corner worth shit) except perhaps the Dodge and Nissan Skyline. The Mustang, even the EB is a sports car no different than the M2 or A4. The GT350 definitely so. Albeit the entire platform saddled by "just good enough" engineering and nearsighted vision. Should Ford get out of it's own way and produce a modern chassis (nee GM Alpha, Audi, Tesla, Mazda) then the battle will be truly joined.

Voila?

And the C8 is the same as the Ford GT?

 

[martinjlm]

Voila?

And the C8 is the same as the Ford GT?

Not yet. But it’s coming.

 

[Hack]

Not yet. But it’s coming.

That will be awesome to see a version of the C8 with a carbon fiber tub. I'm sure it will lose some weight. Will the C8 be available with hydraulics to adjust the ride height and active aero as well?

 

[millhouse]

Not yet. But it’s coming.

Ehh, I'll believe it when I see it.

Until then, each subsequent corvette will continue to depreciate similar to all other vehicles. it will perform no doubt, but not be considered in the same league.

 

[martinjlm]

That will be awesome to see a version of the C8 with a carbon fiber tub. I'm sure it will lose some weight. Will the C8 be available with hydraulics to adjust the ride height and active aero as well?

I doubt it will have a carbon fiber tub, though I do expect some weight reduction for the Z06 model at least. The hybrid model will no doubt gain weight (batteries are heavy). But the Z06 version will likely match or beat the GT on the track. That’s not the primary competitor for the Z06, but to beat its main competition it would have to pass the GT on the way there.

It will be interesting to see if the curb lift feature stays on the track focused trims, since I’m sure all the motors required to execute that add weight.

 

[bluebeastsrt]

Sooooo did we figure out if its over priced yet?

 

[martinjlm]

Voila?

And the C8 is the same as the Ford GT?

Not yet. But it’s coming.

Ehh, I'll believe it when I see it.

Until then, each subsequent corvette will continue to depreciate similar to all other vehicles. it will perform no doubt, but not be considered in the same league.

I wasn’t really commenting with respect to collectibility. If that’s what Hack meant, then no, that ain’t happenin’. I was speaking merely in terms of performance.

 

[millhouse]

I wasn’t really commenting with respect to collectibility. If that’s what Hack meant, then no, that ain’t happenin’. I was speaking merely in terms of performance.

My guess is, that's what he meant. Performance will absolutely be eclipsed, as is the case with all supercars and time.

 

[martinjlm]

Sooooo did we figure out if its over priced yet?

Pretty much answered on page 1. The 11 pages following are mainly posturing, hypothesizing, and horse-carcass mutilation. For its target market, it is not over-priced. There may be competitor vehicles ***cough C8 *** that have versions priced lower, but that alone does not make the GT500 overpriced.

 

[shogun32]

It will be interesting to see if the curb lift feature stays on the track focused trims, since I’m sure all the motors required to execute that add weight.

I would expect it's done via air bag instead of jack screw.

 

[Hack]

I doubt it will have a carbon fiber tub, though I do expect some weight reduction for the Z06 model at least. The hybrid model will no doubt gain weight (batteries are heavy). But the Z06 version will likely match or beat the GT on the track. That’s not the primary competitor for the Z06, but to beat its main competition it would have to pass the GT on the way there.

It will be interesting to see if the curb lift feature stays on the track focused trims, since I’m sure all the motors required to execute that add weight.

Right. I was being a little snarky before, and I appreciate your straight forward answer. Let me clarify what I'm trying to say in a more serious fashion. First I will give an example of a similar situation:

So, my regular non R 2016 GT350 was faster on track than a Ferrari F430 Scuderia. It cornered better, braked better, accelerated out of corners better - on track it completely overshadows the F430. That doesn't mean that my GT350 is the same as a Ferrari F430, though. And I'm not going to say it is.

I understand that people who love GM want the C8 to be compared to the Ford GT and other mid-engine exotics. But the C8 isn't really ever going to be the same as the Ford GT. It won't have the features. It won't have the construction materials. It won't have the exclusivity. There are many other things it won't have. There may be an upcoming model of C8 that is better on the street as well as faster on track compared to the Ford GT. It is possible. But the C8 still won't be the same as the GT.

That was my point.

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