GT350 vs. Z/28

[thePill]

Hard on him? His opinions are very highly affected by his bias.

His choice of talking about weight is wrong now just like when he was talking about the Fusion and new Mustang.

The vette was not overweight, the 5th generation Camaro is. Big difference.

I find it funny that you're talking about the size of anything on the car besides wheelbase. You have NO idea what the size of anything is due to all the the padding. Let me know when you see the pillars or anything else uncovered.

I'd wait to see what that curb weight consist of before we write me off. I was defending the wild 200-300lbs weight gain rumor. The rumor insiders there and here said were correct. I wanted a 3400-3500lbs GT, I never anticipated the amount of options that became standard. There is a lot I didn't add in. I did say, if the Mustang gains weight, it wouldn't be from structural reinforcement. I spoke specifically about the structure in my analysis. I'd say it lost 200-300lbs. It would need to to compensate for IRS, larger brakes, wheels, possibly the PP pack, Electric heated/cooled seats, cameras and new airbags. The spare tire could also be counted in that curb weight, we will have to see. The chassis is lighter as I said and is now confirmed. An AWD base Fusion weighs 3681lbs and a base weighs 35xx, they are almost identical. A Recaro GT will weigh about 3620lbs. Better pray they didn't take on a spare tire, that's gonna be some crow...

Now, go look at all the 3650-3700lbs figures on C5. I will be shocked if they can get within 50lbs of the current 3920lbs. They could leave out the electric heated/cooled seats but risk becoming out equipped for possibly a higher MSRP. It will be equipped like the Mustang...

Its a heavy car...

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[Backorder]

thePill is the wrong source for unbiased speculation. That said, Camaro5 is probably 10 times worse. There's really no difference is there? I don't know why there's so much thePill hate...

Maybe it's because you are now referring to yourself in third person? :jester:

Nah, I kid. I like listening to yours and everyone else's opinions. It's interesting when certain subjects get so heated.

BTW, did you get anymore updates from the 'ring?


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[Agarc]

maybe im blind but that camo camaro almost looks the same as mine now .. and it looks like its the same size as the white car in the other pics

 

[thePill]

Maybe it's because you are now referring to yourself in third person? :jester:

Nah, I kid. I like listening to yours and everyone else's opinions. It's interesting when certain subjects get so heated.

BTW, did you get anymore updates from the 'ring?


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I think there is an event at the Ring right now. I heard its a 3 day open track for clubs. There should be 3000 cars there this weekend. That was the intended purpose of the visit initially. Who knows when they will get back...

I miss being overseas... I very rarely talk about my 6 years in Tokyo.... The Twin Rings!!!

Its safe to assume GM has a decent idea of what the car can do. If free lance club members can get a rough idea, Caddy got some first hand experience. If we say this GT350 comes in at 3600lbs, with 500hp, it will be tough to beat. Insiders here claim the internal goal was over 520hp. I have a hard time believing that with no DI. The Coyote has a long, long way to go to 100hp per liter.

If we look at the GT's 3705lbs, there is much weight to be lost in that package. Seats, wheels and driveshaft could get this baby into the 35xx just as long as the upgrades remain reasonable.

I have a feeling those manual weights include the PP just as the '14's. We've seen GT's from 3605 up to 3670 with Recaro's. Keep in mind, all the weight lost on the Laguna Seca was put back on in suspension. It will be difficult to break the 3599lbs barrier. Lets face it, that's like 175lbs from the Z51 C7. Both cars are on almost identical track and wheelbase.

The M4 weighs 35xxlbs but only in America on the newer US curb standard. It is listed at 3300lbs. The new curb standard confuses me and makes comparisons difficult.

Does Ford have a sub 3600lbs, 500+hp GT350 coming for us? I hope so...

In a fantasy scenario, I'd like an NA 5.5 PTWA DI Coyote at 550hp and 500tq. I also want this at $55,000 at a nice 3555lbs.

Looking at all the new standard GT content, Ford could remove a lot of weight by decontenting a GT.

Some have already pointed out, for those that intend to race, a GT will be the way to go. Ford gave us two levels of GT. One meets the SCCA rules, the other have equipment that is the waiverable class maximum. They did their homework.

To be honest, a new GT is probably more car than most of us can handle. I can't handle AS speeds anymore after 3 seasons off... I'm only 35. In 2011, I could barely hang on to a mildly prepped 2007 GT/CS at Nurburg. Tune, brakes and tires and it was a handful. Could have been the Ring too. My Brembo GT was scary fast at Hockenheim. It was more than I could initially handle. A new GTPP would be faster no doubt.

...I have always referred to thePill in 3rd person. He wasn't always just mine

Eventually, thePill will be joined here with a close friend of his. If you thought I was difficult, wait till you deal with him. He calls me a "Camaro sympathizer". He's a little more deep rooted in this particular area. Might as well have an open source just post along with me.

 

[Big reg]

The Aluminator XS makes 500+ with off the shelf parts and a 2yr 24k warranty. Are they still going FPC with the Voodoo or is that just speculation at this point?

 

[thePill]

The Coyote can make 500hp but can it still be 50 state legal and get 17/26+ mpg. That's the issue.

I have no idea what the GT350 is using. It does sound like a Coyote. The video didn't sound like a FPC to me at all. I didn't hear any FI either and still can't say if its a PTWA 5.1-5.5.

At this point, they could be testing multiple drivetrain configurations.

 

[Pablo GT350]

The Aluminator XS makes 500+ with off the shelf parts and a 2yr 24k warranty. Are they still going FPC with the Voodoo or is that just speculation at this point?

I don't think FPC is confirmed. I'm not sure they need to do it. But I hope its true.

 

[Grimace427]

I have no idea what the GT350 is using. It does sound like a Coyote. The video didn't sound like a FPC to me at all. I didn't hear any FI either and still can't say if its a PTWA 5.1-5.5.

At this point, they could be testing multiple drivetrain configurations.

I agree the car on Forgelines at the ring definitely sounded like a coyote with a bitchin exhaust, but a coyote none the less. The car with black wheels was too muffled to form an opinion, but nothing screamed FPC from the videos.

 

[DivineStrike]

I agree the car on Forgelines at the ring definitely sounded like a coyote with a bitchin exhaust, but a coyote none the less. The car with black wheels was too muffled to form an opinion, but nothing screamed FPC from the videos.

This, and I am semi-happy about the chances of it not being an FPC. Drastically changing things in the motor worries me a bit with reliability. I have a lot more confidence in them making it more reliable with simply giving it another .2 liters and making things stronger vs redesigning how it runs. FPC would be nice though and I know they would put it through a lot of testing, but I would just feel better if they tested it for a little bit longer

 

[thePill]

I'm not really sold on a FPC V8. I do want to see a slightly larger Coyote. I'm so hoping for a PTWA and slightly stroked to keep it square, 5.5 liter.

The GT350 and GT500 would be nice with a 5.5 and SC 5.5. That way they could still work in an Ecoboost 5.0 for the GT or, any Special Editions (Mach 1, Cobra GT, Cobra Jet (nice replacement for Ecoboost) or whatever.

Its possible the GT350 uses just a DI Coyote. That's an easy 470hp and would match the C7.

I don't need a lot of power, it just needs to use it. I'm more concerned about its compliance in class racing than its displacement or output. However, from what the guys told me, its just too fast be rated that low.

Look at the silly z28... It is littered with equipment that's gonna give me trouble at tech. It drives me crazy they would do that in the first place let alone market the thing like that. Its a Z06 Carbon Camaro... The Z06/Z07 had issues with classing due to equipment. No big deal for the Z06, for there is a base car. Same thing looks to be happening here. Hopefully we get two GT350's...

The GT350 will be the non-class compliant option. Its not base, its pretty much a useable and livable street car/track car. We will say $55,000.

Then the GT350R... It too will be $55,000. The money saved in decontenting is respent on hardcore R sh!t... Different missions for different drivers. The R is class compliant.

of course, $55,000 is with 8 fingers crossed... Although, I would love to see a dual model offered at similar MSRP's. Its almost like having our cake and eating it too.

 

[Stuntman]

Why are you so concerned about class compliance? Are you racing? Will a modified GT or detuned GT350 not suffice?

 

[Backorder]

Why are you so concerned about class compliance? Are you racing? Will a modified GT or detuned GT350 not suffice?

I think he is concerned about it because it looks like these cars may be a gt350 and a gt350r that we are seeing lapping the ring. Not because he is racing, but because that's the current mass speculation of what we may be seeing.


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[thePill]

If you have trouble passing tech in a race focused vehicle, what's the point? Anyone can throw parts on a car and win at magazines. The difficult engineering and fame comes from competition.

I'm eager to see this GT350 replace the Z06 C6 as the factory class terror...

 

[thePill]

CCB's create issues at our level. If the GT350 is going to be affordable, as in, less than the turn key race cars, it needs to be flexible when it comes to class compliance. The Z06/Z07, 911 and 458 all use cast iron rotors in Pro. Pro pretty much requires a brake upgrade. I'm concerned about the AM level where buyers can casually track the GT350 or, seriously compete via GT350R. Having two completely separate models, with similar MSRP's with two completely different missions... Track and Comp... Class compliance will ultimately determine whether or not I'm getting a GTPP or GT350R. I haven't fully recovered but, I feel I would be healthy enough to get my practice in and progress in a vehicle as fast as a GT350. I want that option...

If Ford went through the trouble to lap this thing, It better be ready to race. I'm sure lap times will be mentioned. If the car is just down right illegal in motorsport, then they need to just keep their mouths shut about laps and racing all together. The z28 could have offered a competition model no problem, it would have sold. The issue would have been performance...

a z28 with 15 inch cast iron rotors would probably suck. It would have been $8000 cheaper and probably 45lbs heavier. I think 305's are not permitted in some classes up front.. A 295 can be waivered...

I think there will be more than two GT350's. There will be;

GT350 (CCB's, Cup tires and more optional content like a Premium GT) $55,000 with all GT Premium options available.

GT350R (slotted cast iron rotors, R rubber and make it a stripper) $55,000 with Stage competition upgrades from the 350.R below. Multiple stages available.

GT350.R (Competition for Pro racing, based on the 350R, class specific equipment) $135,000, class equipment options only.

GT350.S (Competition, turn key "Spec" race car, built class specific for Pro/Am) $90,000 with Ford Racing Catalog for options. Build your own via FR Catalog... Spec it yourself.

Its wishful but not insane, it would completely cover the Boss's old classes.

I'm hoping Ford Racing pumps out a turn key GT instead (or in addition to) the 350.S. I'd finally get my Mustang GT.R and its something I'd be interested in. It would be amazing if it was under $80k...

If the GT350 ends up being a little off the z28's pace because it had to conform to some class rules, so be it. I think the GT350 can be just as fast, if not faster than the z without CCB's, larger than 15 inch front disc and 305's up front.

The Mustang has earned a spot in GT along side all the other automotive greats.

 

[thePill]

Fair enough, I'd just rather not pay big money for stuff I don't need or can use. I'm hoping there is a GT350 and GT350R.

If anyone remembers, Shelby America actually produced an SCCA compliant GT350 in 2011. It was a non-SC 2011 GT, sent to Shelby...

I'm beginning to wonder what else Ford got their hands on... A new Cobra Roadster with new Ford DNA in the fascia? I'd like to see that...

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