GT350 vs. Z/28

[thePill]

...and the Boss program was developed directly from a specific class that had limitations via Rulebook. It doesn't take much to engineer beyond Grand Am GS cars lap times... especially if you only do one lap... The Boss was a RACE program, a real race program. A program that initially, and to some degree still, never factored in a 5th Gen Camaro. It is just NOT a good base to build on, more so in competition.

Face it brother, the z28 had to literally create another class of Pony Car because it couldn't handle the Mustang in the other 3 levels.

GT kills the SS, the GT killed the 1LE in T2. The Boss was dominant and even though slightly over-engineered for GS, it dominated within the rules, then the rules had to change. The ZL1??? Got raped... Big time...

They made a Camaro z28 classless and a non-direct Mustang competitor. I highly doubt Ford will follow because they offer the real thing for competition. The new GT is literally built to maximum SCCA specs. A high performance, class compliant and ultra competitive GT for $35-$40k is a fantastic option for Regionals. The GT500 will continue the HALO role for Mustang, and now Ford.

Edit: The 6th Gen Camaro is using another loaner platform. Ford has developed the Mustang with zero compromises with a shared chassis. Sharing a chassis is a bad move, if the platform was originally Camaro and handed down, fine, that car will have compromises to overcome. It's 2014, this is the world class sports coupe era. Chevys still shoppin' at the 2nd Hand Store for Camaro parts.

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[PowerUp]

The Boss was a RACE program, a real race program.

Yes, an update of the FR500. All the heavy lifting had already been done. Revised engine, a few trinkets, and call it a BOSS.

Ford has developed the Mustang with zero compromises [from] a shared chassis. Sharing a chassis is a bad move

We'll revisit your, once again, uninformed and misleading remark when the Lincoln version of the S550 platform appears.

 

[thePill]

Yes, an update of the FR500. All the heavy lifting had already been done. Revised engine, a few trinkets, and call it a BOSS.

We'll revisit your, once again, uninformed and misleading remark when the Lincoln version of the S550 platform appears.

Yes, and that Lincoln will need to overcome its own issues from sharing a chassis when that happens. The S550 was specifically built for the Mustang while the Lincoln will be the by product of that platform. The Camaro will be a by product of the ATS... That is not optimal and it only brings inherited disadvantages.

 

[PowerUp]

Yes, and that Lincoln will need to overcome its own issues from sharing a chassis when that happens.

So Lincoln, FoMoCo's halo Brand, is just going to have to put up with whatever the Mustang Team gives them to work with? From a new chassis SOLELY intended for the Mustang?

The S550 was specifically built for the Mustang while the Lincoln will be the by product of that platform.

Patently inaccurate. Period.

If the halo Brand is going to partake, the halo Brand will have input FROM INCEPTION of ITS program. FACT. And what could possibly be stirred into the platform mix by Lincoln that would be soooo catastrophic for Mustang? Nothing. The Lincoln will require a solid base platform to build from (if it hopes to compete successfully against its intended competition), and a solid base platform is just as important to a higher-stressed vehicle like a high-powered/handling Mustang. Fewer band aids will be required than were necessary for the S197. FACT.

Mustang and Lincoln, working together, is a win-win. Better overall result @ a lower cost per unit.

The Camaro will be a by product of Alpha... That is not optimal and it only brings inherited disadvantages.

Where does the ATS rank against its competition, with regard to structure AND weight AND overall handling, as a daily driver Luxury Compact? Yup, at the top. And, for that result, it will be a PENALTY to use such engineering in a Camaro, offered at a lower Base price than the ATS?!

Remember, a Base ATS weighs slightly more than 3,400 lb. A Camaro will NOT weigh more, equally optioned.

 

[on d bit]

Who cares where the chasis come from Ireland what they're used for? Mustang has borrowed platforms for years to keep cost down. Thus is a good thing. What matters is performance. Both mustang and camaro are stepping up. Too bad camaro comes from GM.

 

[garagelogic]

Who cares where the chasis come from Ireland what they're used for? Mustang has borrowed platforms for years to keep cost down. Thus is a good thing. What matters is performance. Both mustang and camaro are stepping up. Too bad camaro comes from GM.

This.:amen:

 

[thePill]

Research and Development started on the S550 in 2010. I don't even think the Lincoln is in the works yet. The Mustang was built specifically for that perticular application.

The 6th Gen Camaro will adopt a platform (from yet another luxury vehicle) like the 5th Gen. There will be MAJOR reworking needed. Especially since it requires additional support for a V8. Have you see the ATS's sled runners? They are tiny....

LOL!!! I wouldn't hold my breath just on faith....

Im sure you would like people to not take me serious, my writings here cause great harm to the Camaro mission. Although, I think there is more truth in my post and threads here than what is endured on C5.

I don't like GM because of the way thy treat customers, employees and people in general.

 

[thePill]

Road and Track finally released their report yesterday. They recorded a 12.2@117mph in the 1/4 mile. The report was delayed and C&D or R&T are prohibited from releasing lap times. They were instructed to report Team Camaro's Milford lap times.

This is the only performance vehicle that has had its testing methods limited to just 2 runs. Hiding something???

 

[on d bit]

Road and Track finally released their report yesterday. They recorded a 12.2@117mph in the 1/4 mile. The report was delayed and C&D or R&T are prohibited from releasing lap times. They were instructed to report Team Camaro's Milford lap times.

This is the only performance vehicle that has had its testing methods limited to just 2 runs. Hiding something???

12.2 in what car? The rags can't report lap times for the camaro? Haha.

As far the mustang is concerned the performance is going to be great however it's still a big car with a small interior. Dumb if you ask me!

 

[thePill]

They ran a 12.2, HOPEFULY (this was just brought to my attention) that 12.2 isn't Team Camaro insisted. Road and Track were made to referance the z28's Milford performance and it's possible the 1/4 mile times were also suggested. There are no traditional testing videos or info other than the runs by Randy and the one at Autoweek. For being the car to end all track conversations, they sure didn't allow the magazines to conduct a private test. The GT500 challenged the ZL1 on a ton of different tracks initially...

However, there was the Inde media day, the ZL1 did outstanding... Then the real test came later that year and suddenly the ZL1 was doing 12.5 in the 1/4 and gettin' beat by a solid axle Mustang on short tracks.

If they were so confident, they would have allow the magazines to test as they usually do. I still can't get pass the fact that the test had to be won after the temperatures reached 60, the track dried and they took pressure out of the tires, after they got hot and lapped the z28 until it laid down a faster time.

I haven't checked into C5 for awhile, I was very pleased to see the members there asking the right questions. They seemed convinced that tires, brakes and an LS7 wasn't worth the extra $35,000 over the class compliant 1LE. I agree...

I wonder how they picked up on these things?

We sure don't see anymore Motorsport talk do we?

Don't be mad at me, I certainly didn't engineer the car ass backwards...

 

[Norm Peterson]

Road and Track finally released their report yesterday. They recorded a 12.2@117mph in the 1/4 mile. The report was delayed and C&D or R&T are prohibited from releasing lap times. They were instructed to report Team Camaro's Milford lap times.

This is the only performance vehicle that has had its testing methods limited to just 2 runs. Hiding something???

Probably not.

About a year ago I took an educated guess at the Z/28's 1/4 mile stats over in this Camaro5 post. I'm not surprised that it ended up being close to right in the middle


Norm

 

[thePill]

Probably not.

About a year ago I took an educated guess at the Z/28's 1/4 mile stats over in this Camaro5 post. I'm not surprised that it ended up being close to right in the middle


Norm

I'm on board with the 12.2 in the quarter, that sounds about right for 4000lbs, 500hp on R's. The 2007 GT500 ran similar times with a tire swap. It was also 500hp and 4000lbs w/ driver.

The oddity was only having two drivers report laps. Only Pro drivers Pobst and Pilgrim were allowed to report laps. Randy's single 1:36 lap was used in a majority of reports. Even indirect media used Randys time... It use to be a multi-media free for all. Autoweek had to use Pilgrim, he did good as well... Let's not forget Andy Pilgrim is a GM factory driver, Autoweek was quick to point this out.

C&D/R&T were there and ran laps, they are not permitted to show their lap times. When the Boss came out, Ford had one for every magazine and media outlet, the Laguna Seca event. The GT500 was raced for the entire Spring in pretty much every outlet. The ZL1 and 1LE had much larger events as well, everyone got to lap one...

It just seems like an underwhelming effort. I have NEVER seen a manufacture prohibit select media sources reports before. Nor have I ever witnessed MT's lap time used for Hot Rod, Automobile, both MT web shows and a bunch of Automotive media/blog spots. Have you Norm?

Nor have I ever been able to pull out inconsistencies to the same degree as this event.

Let the GT350 get caught lowering tire pressure, running in optimal conditions vs. competitors, wet vs. dry and using factory drivers. They would sh!t themselves.

Christ, SID of SVTP merely placed a lap timer on a Nurburgring GT500 video and he gets discredited at every mention. Even though he discovered the cheating, they avoid Nurburgring discussion now don't they Norm, unless they are talking about the time the z28 lost in the 11 seconds of rain.

The Motorsport argument of mine was won, they attack me like I built the car with such limitations... They don't talk about racing anymore do they Norm...

 

[on d bit]

...they avoid Nurburgring discussion now don't they Norm, unless they are talking about the time the z28 lost in the 11 seconds of rain.

GM ran nurburgring a month earlier in the Z28. They had a closed track and dry weather. Yet they could not beat the 37 they ran in the "wet" as some people call it. Hell when it was dry they had trouble beating the 41 the ZL1 ran.:eyebulge:

 

[Jim968]

The oddity was only having two drivers report laps. Only Pro drivers Pobst and Pilgrim were allowed to report laps.

C&D/R&T were there and ran laps, they are not permitted to show their lap times.

Who, other than you, says C&D/R&T weren't "permitted" to show their lap times?

Motor Trend and Autoweek used pro drivers. C&D and R&T used journalists. What would the lap times show us other than the fact that journalists aren't as fast as pros?

If you were the C&D or R&T driver would you want everyone to how much you suck compared to Andy and Randy?

 

[on d bit]

If you were the C&D or R&T driver would you want everyone to how much you suck compared to Andy and Randy?

That has not stopped them before. Which includes the lightning lap.

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