GT350 vs. Z/28

[garagelogic]

Gassed and ready-to-go, 50-50. The way a person would take it to the track to run, maximizing track time and avoiding expensive track gas.

Once again, as all statements should be, the qualifier is it's heavy for a Mustang S197. With its locomotive power plant, 57-43 distribution, and its illegal-in-Stock-class NHRA power-to-weight ratio (under 6lb/hp), combined with its Pep Boys rolling stock, it's useless in stock form on a road course against the purpose-built Z/28. ANY road course.

It takes a race-only $90K+ 302-R to get close to the $75K street-legal Z/28. Better luck next-Gen.

But you can cherry-pick the poorest 1/4-mile time/speed (the LAST metric of concern in its development), C&D's 12.7 @ 116, and sleep better tonight. "We WIN!", indeed.

Good night. Sweet dreams.

Yep, you've convinced me that my being a life-long a Mustang fan has been a waste due to the production of the latest generation of the z/28. Not.

You and your friends can celebrate the z/28 until your heart is content, but I'll pass and spend my time this spring celebrating the Mustang's 50th anniversary of continuous production; something the Camaro will never celebrate.

Despite having the means to buy it, the z/28 does nothing for me. I rarely, if ever put my cars on a road course, and the z/28 is simply a horrible driver, despite being street legal.

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[on d bit]

It didn't have wide/sticky enough tires for its weight and power levels.

Is this the entire story? How do they figure that? Too much slippage? So the ZR1 which is also under 6lb/hp is still legal?

 

[on d bit]

It's not a power/weight issue. It has a higher tire loading. More weight relative to tire size, and more power relative to tire size. -Which is an important figure.

Yes it is considering that with this poor figure the GT500 destroys the Z28 in the 1/4 mile which is all about power loading of the rear wheels.

The reason I brought it up was that Power Up said it was illegal in the stock NHRA class because it had less than a 6lb/hp power/weight ratio. Im assuming the ZR1 is illegal in this class too.

 

[PowerUp]

So the ZR1 which is also under 6lb/hp is still legal?

Your mathematics skills are like the pharmacological wonder's reading comprehension, apparently.

NHRA Stock-class STARTS @ 7.00lb/hp for everything BUT Challenger - COPO - CJ, which start @ 6.00 lb/rated hp. NO ONE runs the GT 500 competitively in Stock Eliminator. They run CJs instead.


http://classracer.com/classes.html

GT 500 - 3850 lb/662 hp = 5.82 lb/hp

ZL1 - 4120 lb/580 hp = 7.10

5.82 lb/hp...NOW you know the REAL reason a GT 500 beats a ZL1 in the 1/4-mile, off the showroom floor. It has a TREMENDOUS power-to-weight advantage.

Remember the Ford GT was 3351 lb, with 540 hp = 6.21 lb/hp

C6 Z06 - 3162 lb/505 hp = 6.26 lb/hp. How does it compare to a Ford GT or a GT 500, in the 1/4-mile? Pretty favorably.


Put a nuclear reactor in a go-kart and crazy things happen, in a straight line. Hobble it with skateboard wheels 'n tires, relatively, and you're incapable of applying that nuclear fission to the pavement, in turns at nuclear speed. All that power, and no way to use it, fully. Without serious and expensive mods. THAT'S why the 302-R and -S exist. At prices well beyond the Z/28.

 

[on d bit]

Your mathematics skills are like the pharmacological wonder's reading comprehension, apparently.

NHRA Stock-class STARTS @ 7.00lb/hp

GT 500 - 3850 lb/662 hp = 5.82 lb/hp

ZL1 - 4120 lb/580 hp = 7.10

5.82 lb/hp...NOW you know the REAL reason a GT 500 beats a ZL1 in the 1/4-mile, off the showroom floor. It has a TREMENDOUS power-to-weight advantage.

Remember the Ford GT was 3351 lb, with 540 hp = 6.21 lb/hp

Put a nuclear reactor in a go-kart and crazy things happen, in a straight line. Hobble it with skateboard wheels 'n tires, relatively, and you're incapable of applying that nuclear fission to the pavement, in turns at nuclear speed. All that power, and no way to use it, fully.

You did not answer my question. Is the zr1corvette legal in this class?

Stuntman man specifically stated the mustang has too much power to weight for its tires and is therefore ineffective. Is this correct?

 

[PowerUp]

No, but the Z06 is, p2w-wise. And hands the 500 it's hat, off the showroom floor. There are unmodified Z06s running 10's. with a .39 disadvantage.

And now we're soooo far off topic.

Does a GT 500 run with a Z06-Z07 on a road course? No. Does a GT 500 trounce a Z06 in the 1/4-mile? No. Has a GT 500 run a 7:22 @ the 'Ring? No. Does the GT 500 have a .39 p2w advantage over the Z06? Yes.

YOU can now answer your own question. This whole thread has been a song 'n dance about the unfair tires the Z/28 has, among many other whiny/untrue/misleading information. Guess what? If the GT 500 had something other than Pep Boy tires, it COULD be a helluva all-round performer, beyond what it is. FACT. But THAT'S not its intended purpose. "Straight line performer". Well, against a disadvantaged Z06, it's merely a barely passing grade. Hobbled in part by undersized less-grippy tires, relative to others.

But you get what you pay for.

 

[on d bit]

I'm assuming that since the zr1 vette is not legal it is somehow a bad car. That was the impression that you gave with your original statement.

As for the thread I find it comical that GM is touting the z28 as a gtr/zo6/911tt Competitor on the road course only to have succumb to mind games to try to prove it. They did the same thing 2 years ago with the zl1 only to be trounced. Basic fact is the z28 is nowhere near either of those three mentioned earlier on a road course.

 

[All-Or-Nothing]

Regardless, it's 57/43

C'mon....it doesn't really matter. Look at a 911 or Cayman or even the BRZ.

I guess they are all doing it wrong.

 

[FATTBoss]

I thought this was Z/28 vs an as-yet-unknown-what-it'll-do-or-if-it-will-even-be-built GT350? Why all this talk about GT500, Cayman, 911, and BRZ crap???

 

[PowerUp]

I'm assuming that since the zr1 vette is not legal it is somehow a bad car.

The NHRA-legal remark regarding the GT 500 was meant as a "counter" to all this "Z/28 ain't legal" BS. Just as with the streetable GT 500, there are NO rules on the street when it comes to the cornering-handling mission of the Z/28. And the GT 500's mission with its under-6.0 lb/hp is obvious: it's a terror...in a straight line...in more ways than one. BOSSes for the curves, 500s for the strip. Apparent from the viewpoint that you need to add optional packages to get a 500 to get it to be track-able with confidence. Unlike GM's philosophy with the ZL1, suspension-wise: one basic build (MRC), reasonably able to perform well, regardless of whether street-strip-road course.

Each plays to a role determined by their respective manufacturers. Each is considered good value by their respective clientele.

The ZR1's mission is clearly aided by a much better chassis than any OEM street-legal S197, supported by superior grip from much larger tires than any OEM S197 has been blessed with, or could possibly be equipped with, without significant modification that would be prohibitive cost-wise.

Again, when you delve into the sub-6.0 range, it becomes very difficult to fully harness and apply all that "capability". It's NOT a secret that, for a price, the ZR1 is also a terror, well beyond the applicable results of the GT 500. It's also NOT a secret that Corvette considered the now-out-of-production Z06 as the "preferred" track star. Normally aspirated, with lots of mechanical grip and state-of-the-art C-C brakes (in Z07 form) with a close eye on weight. A "formula" used to get the Z/28 to its level of ability, with a 700 lb. penalty against the Z06.

That was the impression that you gave with your original statement.

No, that's YOUR erroneous interpretation. Or, rather, your attempt at continued engagement, which you have succeeded with. But that, too, now comes to an end.

One last comment, if I may: Don't forget to thank the "competition" for the much improved S550, when it finally shows up @ Your-town Ford. We live in interesting times, car-wise. So enjoy your initial gains with the S550 but remember: Gen-6 Camaro is not too far off into the future, and I'm sure GM will fully bake a recipe for those seeking ultimate 4-seat canyon-carving.

Half-baked efforts from others, BEWARE! This Z/28 is a benchmark, to be exceeded by its replacement. Those capabilities are well-beyond a BOSS LS, already...and Ford knows it.

ALL of this, of course, is not "new", or even "news". For your reading pleasure, enjoy this: http://www.caranddriver.com/compari...-vs-chevrolet-camaro-z-28-archived-comparison

 

[FATTBoss]

...
Half-baked (fixed it) efforts from others, BEWARE! This Z/28 is a benchmark, to be exceeded by its replacement.

True statement to be sure. I wonder though if Ford will use the Z/28 as a benchmark for performance. If they again build a car with sanctioned competition in mind like they did with the Boss and limit the brakes to what is comp legal, and other components as "required", it may not come close to the Z/28.

If on the other hand, they focus the GT on a competition legal car and just build a GT350 to be a monster track focused car, they could eclipse the Z/28 in every category.

 

[PowerUp]

True statement to be sure. I wonder though if Ford will use the Z/28 as a benchmark for performance. If they again build a car with sanctioned competition in mind like they did with the Boss and limit the brakes to what is comp legal, and other components as "required", it may not come close to the Z/28.

Sort of what you might expect of a next-Gen 1LE (or whatever name it may possess).

If on the other hand, they focus the GT on a competition legal car and just build a GT350 to be a monster track focused car, they better (fixed) eclipse the Z/28 in every category.

...because we KNOW GM will! As mentioned, the Z/28 is a benchmark. For themselves, specifically. AND for "others" who want to fully compete, stat-for-stat, on-track AND, just as importantly, in showrooms. And on-line forums, too!

 

[thePill]

Let's save the drag racing conversation for the Mustang only. The GT500 exiled the Camaro from the sport in 2013.

 

[thePill]

That scan also shows 53/47. Where are you getting the 57/43 number?

All in all, 53/47 isn't terribly bad.

-T

Lol, my bad. My math is still correct though, the front is 250lbs heavier than the rear. Exactly 125lbs would need to be shifted from front to rear for 50/50

53/47 isn't bad, it's only bad if the manufacturers claim a 50/50 weight distribution and don't deliver, then it's bad.

The z28 weighed by C&D is an actual test, the car had AC and 6 speakers. I imagine the z28 had a full tank when weighed, if not, the z28 wil be over 3900lbs.

I think it's lame, if you promised near 50/50, they should at least get close.

I wonder though if Ford will use the Z/28 as a benchmark for performance. If they again build a car with sanctioned competition in mind like they did with the Boss and limit the brakes to what is comp legal, and other components as "required", it may not.

I am hoping it will be sanctioned at the GT/GTS level. The GT350 is currently testing right now. The chase cars (benchmarks) have already been selected. If pics are spied with the competition, note that some of the vehicles are for interior benching as well. No, I don't know which vehicles are being performance marked... Know this though, one of the cars mentioned was faster than the z28 in the last test. I hope these benchmarks are not unrealistic, although, some closer to the program than me, have already brushed the z28 off.

The GT350 will be offered with a much lower MSRP, I don't even think a 2017 GT500 will be $70,000... Maybe loaded...

C'mon....it doesn't really matter. Look at a 911 or Cayman or even the BRZ.

I guess they are all doing it wrong.

It is important, most 4000lbs cars chose to brag about weight distribution to draw attention away from their fat a$$. Even then, 50/50 was missed...

 

[on d bit]

Power Up I have not said one negative thing about the Z/28. It's a great car, my issues are with GM and those who make it better than it is. Yes it is better than the LS. We all know that but it's not better or have better performance than a GTR or 991tts or a Z06. It's simply not at that level.

For the record the GT500 is still the fastest mustang around the track, for 1 lap best time.

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