GT350 vs. Z/28

[PowerUp]

1) So any car that has those brakes and dampers should automatically be worth more than 75k?

2) That's cool the Z28 has the same brakes as the 170k Audi R8 V10 Plus, how does that suggest that that in and of itself should make the Z28 cost more?

1) Ask Lieberman. He's on Facebook, daily.

2) ANY car that has C-C brakes and DSSV dampers will cost more than one without.

Sponsored

 

[PowerUp]

pill, you keep harping on sanctioned racing as if, for some reason, ALL CARS MUST RACE, AS PRODUCED, WITHIN SANCTIONED RULES.

The "rules", as I have told you before and you've chosen to COMPLETELY IGNORE, for the Z/28 were written on Muholland Drive. Run what ya brung, off the showroom floor with valid license plates attached.

Just like the final iteration of the GT500 was built to Woodward Avenue "rules" - same criteria, but forget the twisties. Put your freight train engine in a tinfoil chassis and "giver 'er!"

In BOTH cases, MISSION ACCOMPLISHED!

Simple.

 

[PowerUp]

Anyways, the Z28 just isn't my cup of tea. Now had Chevy had a car that could do low 11's in the quarter, compete with the cars it's said to on the track, and have AC, stereo, etc, all for the same price or slightly higher (5k at most) then I'd be worshiping at the feet of this car. It doesn't do that, the C6 Z06 does and that's the car that I'm going to be praising until something knocks it off its pedestal. The Z28 is a solid car, I just don't think it deserves all the hype its getting. Give it a pat on the back, not a gold medal.

Anyone MORE interested in 1/4-mile straight line performance is NOT the core customer for the Z/28. Period. Just like they weren't for the BOSS LS. As a Ford customer, if you wanna quicker strip-tripper, buy a Base BOSS. Or a Base GT500. The extra dough for the LS Package or PP Package were NOT to enhance drag racing times. Simple.

The BOSS LS got well-deserved hype for its road course capabilities. But its ultimate abilities, as delivered off the showroom floor, are superseded by the Z/28. Handily. Take Pobst's word for it. And Pobst has an enviable history touting the Mustang's case.

And anytime you can match the road course capabilities of 911 Turbo/GT3/GT-R/R10 with a mere American 4-seater, that, my friend, is Front Page News, regardless of where you Brand loyalties stand.

Rejoice! Maybe the GT350 will put Ford back on top? If it appears before the next-Gen Z/28. And then we'll revisit who's getting too much hype, or who has the better price-performance result: Eur-Asia, or North America.

EDIT: BTW, when speaking of BOSS 302 history, the Z/28 and the BOSS 302 each won, back in the day, TWO TRANS AM CHMPIONSHIPS, EACH! A draw.

Know where the two departed? DRAG STRIP. Who won the NHRA Super Stock World Championship in '68? Yeah, Dave Strickler in a Grumpy-massaged Z/28. Just sold @ B-J Scottsdale for over a $1/4 Mill. That's GT 350-R territory! Anyone recall a BOSS 302 Mustang winning at a National event? Any event? Me neither. But times change.

 

[thePill]

pill, you keep harping on sanctioned racing

Yep!! Because the "heritage" of a Z/28 IS sanctioned racing with homologation. That WAS the main selling point no? Is it me harping on sanctioned racing or Team Camaro failing to deliver?

I didn't build the z28 backwards, thePill didn't promise you real Z/28 heritage and dominance. Team Camaro did and were put on the spot by my good friends at Motor Trend/Hot Rod... A woman asked the question and Al didn't have an answer. Where is the legendary Z/28? Because not being compliant wasn't part of the allure. The GS car is a joke, not even a funny one. To be honest, it really upset me. It's the only car allowed to continue with MAJOR reworking.

The dominance I referred to was a Camaro5 misconception. I think everyone knows how much I love to smash them. Everyone talked about class racing and Championships, factory racing, ready to run, fastest in class... None of that was accurate. My Assault Thread ended that conversation.... Nobody realized because nobody read a single Rulebook, not even Team Camaro.

I can look passed the competition sandbagging and Nurburgring stop watch issues. It's cheating... and did more harm than good.

It's super important to Team Camaro or they wouldn't have scrambled to place this turd in a class. Now that they took the sh!t (and you guys are smiling a brown grin), I'm merely making sure this turd flushes and Ford doesn't follow down this dead end. The GT500 will rise to HALO car this generation, it will be the magazine Champion (probably Drag too).

Motorsport is for real cars that had some major R&D done in racing. You let me know if you feel the z28 fits into this catagory.

Now Al claims the z28 was neck and neck with a GT3 at Nurburgring, which would make it faster than a Z06... with 600lbs more weight. They claim now a. 7:25... It was a 7:31 a few months ago! but barely managed a. 7:37 in real life. It took them 30 runs to best the ZL1... I'm sorry, it just doesn't add up.

A z28 is not faster than a Z06 on any track. That said, the GT-R is and the GT3 is right there. All of the sudden, those two cars are draggin' ass...

Sounds like more Camaro BS to me and seeing all your frowning faces over here makes me think, I got it right. Defending a 4000lbs car in road racing is hilarious, I can't take any of you seriously. $80,000 I could live with, that is PRO money and that's what we would spend anyway. However, once I find I can't race my toy, my money goes somewhere else.

Boss 302, GT350, Trans Am, Z/28... These are sanctioned, factory racing terms. Even the Miata fits the discription more than the 2014 z28.

 

[PowerUp]

Now Al claims the z28 was neck and neck with a GT3 at Nurburgring, which would make it faster than a Z06... with 600lbs more weight. They claim now a. 7:25... It was a 7:31 a few months ago! but barely managed a. 7:37 in real life. It took them 30 runs to best the ZL1... I'm sorry, it just doesn't add up.

A z28 is not faster than a Z06 on any track. That said, the GT-R is and the GT3 is right there. All of the sudden, those two cars are draggin' ass...

WHO claimed the 7:25? NO ONE FROM GM. Someone on a forum "equated" that time!!!!

"Neck and neck" means WHAT?! "Close", as in horseshoes 'n hand grenades? 1 second? 2 seconds? 5 seconds? it's relative, and it's open to interpretation. It's NOT FINITE!

"Neck 'n neck" and "close" mean whatever the h-e-doublehockeysticks YOU interpret it as, or HE interprets it as, or THEY interpret it as.

NO ONE FROM GM "claims" a 7:25 'Ring time for the Z/28...repeat NO ONE! Got it? At least, not yet.

As to Z/28 outrunning a Z06 @ the 'Ring: What YEAR Z06? On what TIRES? With what BRAKES?

See, the problem with consistent Z06 times is the same as BOSS times: There's more than one version of Z06, just like there was more than one version of BOSS, but ALL BOSS FANS only quote the LS times for road courses, and the Base BOSS for strip work.

The Z06 has enjoyed at least THREE different types of TIRES. And at least TWO different types of BRAKES. Put the BEST tires and the BEST brakes on a C6 Z06, and watch it disappear from a Z/28. THAT'S the one that ran 7:22. It's referred to as a Z06-Z07. Kinda like a GT 500 with PP, only MUCH faster on a road course.

 

[thePill]

The z28 is not faster than a Z06, GT3 or GT-R. Those three cars are neck and neck... With a limited top speed at the Ring (I was the first to report this), it will be difficult to beat its old time. It needs to make that time up in the turns.

The 1/4 mile....

Let's get into this embarrassing topic. Yes, if your concern is drag racing, shop elsewhere... The times will discourage most by themselves. If your looking for a competitive road racing platform, again... LOOK SOMEWHERE ELSE.

So, if the z28 can't drag race, then it's not the car your looking for. That said, under the same logic, if the z28 can't legally race in road racing... Shouldn't we urge buyers to look somewhere else?

Seems we are trying to pound a fat, square peg into a small, round hole.

 

[PowerUp]

The z28 is not faster than a Z06, GT3 or GT-R. Those three cars are neck and neck...

Are you a retired crash test dummy? How many times does "Corvette Z06" show up on this chart? Porsche? GT-R? What years? What equipment?


http://nurburgringlaptimes.com/lap-times/lap-times-top-100/
Top 100 Rank

Manufacturer & Model

Lap Time

Onboard Video

Year

1. Radical SR8LM 6:48.00 Watch Onboard '09 2. Radical SR8 6:56.08 Watch Onboard '05 3. Porsche 918 Spyder 6:57.00 Watch Onboard '13 4. Nissan GT-R Nismo 7:08.68 Watch Onboard '15 5. Gumpert Apollo Speed 7:11.57 Watch Onboard '09 6. Dodge Viper SRT-10 ACR 7:12.13 Watch Onboard '10 7. Lexus LFA Nurburgring Package 7:14.64 Watch Onboard '12 8. Donkervoort D8 RS 7:14.89 Watch Onboard '05 9. Porsche 911 GT2 RS 7:18.00 Onboard N/A '10 10. Radical SR3 Turbo 7:19.00 Watch Onboard '03 11. Nissan GT-R 7:19.10 Onboard N/A '13 12. Chevrolet Corvette ZR1 7:19.63 Watch Onboard '12 13. Dodge Viper ACR 7:22.1 Watch Onboard '09 14. Chevrolet Corvette Z06 Z07 Package 7:22.68 Watch Onboard '11 15. Gumpert Apollo Sport 7:24.00 Onboard N/A '07 16. Nissan GT-R 7:24.22 Watch Onboard '11 17. Maserati MC12 7:24.29 Watch Onboard '04 18. Pagani Zonda F Clubsport 7:24.65 Onboard N/A '05 19. Lamborghini Aventador LP700-4 7:25.00 Onboard N/A '11 20. KTM X-Bow R 7:25.00 Onboard N/A '11 21. Ferrari Enzo 7:25.21 Watch Onboard '02 22. Mercedes SLS AMG Black Series 7:26.40 Watch Onboard '14 23. Nissan GT-R 7:26.70 Watch Onboard '08 24. Porsche 911 GT3 RS 4.0 7:27.00 Watch Onboard '11 25. Ferrari 458 Italia 7:28.00 Watch Onboard '09 26. McLaren MP4-12C 7:28.00 Onboard N/A '10 27. Porsche Carrera GT 7:28.71 Watch Onboard '03 28. Mercedes SLS AMG GT 7:30.00 Onboard N/A '12 29. Porsche 911 GT2 7:31.00 Onboard N/A '07 30. Porsche 911 Turbo S 7:32.00 Onboard N/A '10 31. Pagani Zonda F 7:33.00 Onboard N/A '05 32. Porsche 911 GT3 RS 7:33.00 Onboard N/A '10 33. Koenigsegg CCX 7:33.55 Watch Onboard '06 34. Koenigsegg CCR 7:34.00 Onboard N/A '04 35. Audi R8 GT 7:34.00 Onboard N/A '10 36. Nissan GT-R Spec-V 7:34.46 Onboard N/A '09 37. RUF RT12 7:35.00 Watch Onboard '05 38. Chevrolet Camaro Z/28 7:37.47 Watch Onboard '14 39. Porsche 911 Carrera S 7:37.90 Watch Onboard '11 40. Porsche 911 Turbo 7:38.00 Onboard N/A '06 41. Lexus LF-A 7:38.00 Onboard N/A '10 42. Lamborghini Gallardo LP 570-4 Superleggera 7:38.00 Onboard N/A '10 43. Ferrari 430 Scuderia 7:39.00 Watch Onboard '07 44. Lamborghini Murcielago LP640 7:40.00 Watch Onboard '06 45. McLaren Mercedes SLR 7:40.00 Onboard N/A '03 46. Porsche 911 GT3 7:40.00 Onboard N/A '09 47. Chevrolet Camaro ZL-1 7:41.27 Watch Onboard '11 48. Porsche 911 GT3 7:42.00 Onboard N/A '06 49. Radical SR3 7:42.00 Onboard N/A '02 50. Lamborghini Murcielago LP 670-4 SuperVeloce 7:42.00 Onboard N/A '09 51. Chevrolet Corvette Z06 7:42.90 Onboard N/A '05 52. Porsche 911 GT3 RS 7:43.00 Onboard N/A '03 53. Pagani Zonda C12 S 7:44.00 Onboard N/A '02 54. Audi R8 V10 5.2 FSI 7:44.00 Onboard N/A '09 55. Mercedes CLK 63 Black Series 7:45.00 Onboard N/A '07 56. Gardner Douglas GD T70 Spyder 7:45.00 Onboard N/A '10 57. Mercedes C 63 AMG Coupe Black Series 7:45.00 Onboard N/A '11 58. Porsche 911 GT2 7:46.00 Onboard N/A '00 59. Lamborghini Gallardo Superleggera 7:46.00 Onboard N/A '07 60. Jaguar XJ220 7:46.37 Watch Onboard '92 61. Lamborghini Murcielago LP-640 E-gear 7:47.00 Watch Onboard '07 62. Ferrari 599 GTB Fiorano 7:47.00 Onboard N/A '06 63. Wiesmann GT MF5 7:47.00 Onboard N/A '08 64. Porsche 911 Turbo 7:47.00 Onboard N/A '09 65. Porsche 911 GT3 RS 7:48.00 Onboard N/A '06 66. BMW M3 GTS 7:48.00 Onboard N/A '10 67. Alpina B3 GT3 7:49.00 Onboard N/A '10 68. Lamborghini Murcielago 7:50.00 Onboard N/A '02 69. BMW M3 CSL 7:50.00 Onboard N/A '03 70. Porsche 911 Carrera S 7:50.00 Onboard N/A '08 71. Mercedes SL65 AMG Black Series 7:51.00 Onboard N/A '09 72. Jaguar XKR-S 7:51.00 Onboard N/A '11 73. Lamborghini Gallardo 7:52.00 Onboard N/A '03 74. Ford GT 7:52.00 Onboard N/A '04 75. Porsche Panamera Turbos S 7:52.00 Onboard N/A '11 76. Lamborghini Gallardo LP560-4 7:52.00 Onboard N/A '08 77. Mercedes CLK DTM 7:54.00 Onboard N/A '04 78. Porsche 911 GT3 7:54.00 Onboard N/A '03 79. Ferrari F430 7:55.00 Onboard N/A '05 80. Subaru WRX STI 7:55.00 Watch Onboard '10 81. Caterham R500 1.8L K Series 7:55.00 Onboard N/A '99 82. BMW M5 7:55.00 Onboard N/A '11 83. Porsche 911 Turbo 7:56.00 Onboard N/A '00 84. Ferrari 360 CS 7:56.00 Onboard N/A '03 85. Ferrari California GT 7:56.00 Onboard N/A '09 86. Porsche Panamera Sport Chrono Turbo 7:56.00 Onboard N/A '09 87. Porsche Panamera Turbo 7:56.00 Onboard N/A '09 88. Chevrolet Corvette Z06 7:56.00 Onboard N/A '02 89. Mercedes-Benz SLS AMG Coupé Electric Drive 7:56.23 Watch Onboard '13 90. Porsche 911 GT3 7:56.33 Onboard N/A '99 91. Honda NSX-R 7:56.73 Watch Onboard '02 92. Audi RS4 7:58.00 Onboard N/A '05 93. Jaguar XKR-S Convertible 7:59.00 Onboard N/A '12 94. Chevrolet Corvette C6 7:59.00 Onboard N/A '04 95. Porsche 911 Carrera S 7:59.00 Onboard N/A '04 96. Cadillac CTS-V 7:59.32 Watch Onboard '09 97. Mercedes C63 AMG Coupe 8:01.00 Onboard N/A '11 98. Mercedes C63 AMG Coupe Performance Pkg 8:01.00 Onboard N/A '11 99. Bugatti EB 110 SS 8:01.00 Onboard N/A '95 100. Nissan Skyline R33 GT-R 8:01.00 Onboard N/A '95

Not a CURRENT SINGLE FORD TIME. And God knows they've been there, haven't they?

Not even SID's video game GT 500 time.

BTW, the Z/28 vs. GT-R vs. Turbo S occurred @ Barber, NOT the 'Ring.

 

[thePill]

...and they can't even Ring properly. Let's not forget the stop watch mishap the ZL1 and z28 experienced. If they cheat on "official" times, they are likely cheating every opportunity they get. That's the nature of cheating and getting caught... I wouldn't expect Ford to jump on this bandwagon. How can you out cheat a cheater??? I don't even want affiliated with Chevy on that track, not when they skim the clock. It's low class, thanks for bringing it up. So, do you think both the z28 and old Z06 could lap Barber in 1:36? I'd like to hear how you think that's possible. Both GTR and GT3 are right at the Z06 level... FACT. A 505hp, 3200lbs car will likely be light years ahead of a 505hp, 4000lbs vehicle don't ya' think? The Z06's tires were outstanding!!! So, your saying that the z28 is all tire? Does that justify a $80,000. Are you having a stroke? That is just NOT happening and it makes lap times from the GT-R and GT3 a little questionable. Given Team Camaro's track record where honesty is concerned, I can't trust them. They have cheated test before, they are doing it again.

You may continue your tantrum, it's not helping but, I enjoy it none the less...
@Stuntman,

I think GS is in the process of going I6 turbo. BMW is moving to the Biturbo 6 very soon and I suspect Ford may try the EB 3.5 when the cost comes down. It was only a matter of time for that class to go that route. I suspect there will be a lot of changes there over the next 2 seasons. The Camaro is built to spec but had some big changes to fit in. It also goes unrestricted at a much higher output. This was done so they remained competitive. It doesn't belong there, obviously...

 

[thePill]

There's a good question floating around over on C5:

They are asking the logical questions when trying I justify an $80,000 Camaro they can drive to the track (but not register :( )

What's a ZL1 do with z28 tires and wheels?

Where's the old Z06 comparison?

What about the new C7?

Well... Hognutz has a legitimate question... The ZL1 would gain about 2-3 seconds on most of the US curcuit of tracks. That is getting close to Z06 times as is... He's also correct about the cost. It would put a ZL1 about the same MSRP as a GT500 TP/PP (bring back the KR please and get rid of the TP/PP/SVT/Brembo crap). About $62,000 right? Anyone disagree? It would be dangerously fast AND, probably easier to drive.

The out going Z06 was fast, GT-R fast... There were some places the GT-R was just not going to lose. Now it appears that the GT-R no longer holds an advantage. It WAS faster than a Z06/Z07... Now, none of that matters... The z28 is faster than ALL three!!! Even the $100,000 dollar Z06/Z07.

The C7 is fast... My guys in Germany said, it's fast, very fast... and it moves over Nurburgring like a Stingray on the ocean floor. As of right now, the C7 Z51 is faster than the z28. It won't be faster at these smaller tracks but, it is nipping at the heels. Although, according to the new report, the C7 could be faster than the GT-R and GT3.

It's all mixed up now, I would have had a Z06 a second faster than the z28, the GT-R would be there with it. The GT3 is fast at Barber, from 5.50:1 to 9.0:1, it has times at Barber, by private owners, from 1:31 to 1:36... The cold and wet were an issue, but the track was shortened for some reason. So, I'm not sure what's happening. The top speed of the z28 will prevent it from going much faster at Nurburg. It's lap time there won't translate here...

If it can't beat a Z06/Z07, it can't beat a GT-R or GT3... Simple...

My good friends at Motor Trend will see to this... It's the ultimate lie detector... Because we know, the Z06/Z07 was the bang for the buck, and it couldn't out the GT-R. There will be a lot of head scratching once this little error comes forth.

Of course, I will be here when that happens...

 

[thePill]

I need to reiterate this before too many people get feelings hurt.

This thread and all my post are for entertainment purposes only. All my post are of my own opinion and point of view. The main topic of the thread was solely base on the possibility of another GT350/z28 feud in Motorsports. If you do not like the content of my post, I strongly urge you to NOT READ or perticipate.

I will not be buying a 2014 z28 because it is 4000lbs, on a 112 inch wheelbase (same as a Taurus), cost nearly $80,000 dollars and is non-compliant in most classes and would need major alterations to be competitive.

I can name 3 Chevy's right now better suited for racing than this. I can name at least one 5th Gen more class compatible than this and, probably more our actual speed.

The z28 is a $25,000 base platform with $52,000 dollars worth of band aids. For that money, Pedders would run circles around this. Why not? I can Pedders Spec an SS for $20,000 less. If I were a Camaro owner and was an actual competitive racer (very few 5th Gens) then I could not possibly take an entry like this seriously. It's a mega-attempt but it isn't aimed at this topic at all.

In fact, it isn't really aimed at anything but you wallet...

Now, I think people here on this site are smart enough to judge for themselves. The occasional squirming you guys do just attracts more people to this simple fact... Or a collection of them concerning cheaper, lighter, faster more comparable Chevy's. People arnt stupid...

I'm not trying to sell you on heritage, they are... I didn't bring up road racing dominance, they did... but you can't claim any of that and still be convinced they hit the mark. They abandon the efforts to a 3rd party builder. That is not the Z/28 I've been waiting for...

The focus was competition, racing, heritage... then came desperation. "Faster than anything Ford has on the street". When is that gonna get here??? You have a LONG way to go before you see a GT500's 1/4 times buddy... They chased you from the f@&$in sport!!!

So, let's change the subject... Road racing... Something the Mustang has rightfully climb the ladder to do. Won Championships... Broke records... Had the RULES changed to stop them.

The Boss, still wounding a company so bad they had to build 3 different cars, pawn them off on you, one at a time, rebadged and they said "The best road handling Camaro ever".

Twice you've been fooled, by a Team that buries the competitions lap times (at a media event, don't know how you sleep at night). Shave time from their "Official" Nurburgring lap times... Make claims then don't deliver (11's all day? Simulated faster than the GT500? Faster than a Boss but can't manage the GT in T2? z28 heritage?

Forget my degrees in these areas, I want readers to make a choice from this side of the fence. Looking at the 12,000 views here and counting, I'd say I'm on the right track...

I just can justify $80 grand on a Camaro specifically "built for racing" than you can't f@ckin' race... I can't!!!!! I tried!!!

 

[PowerUp]

So, do you think both the z28 and old Z06 could lap Barber in 1:36? I'd like to hear how you think that's possible.

I wasn't there to watch Randy Pobst run, but apparently he ran a 1:36. You got a problem with that time, call HIM a lying cheater. As to an old Goodyear-tried Z06 (the same crappy Supercars they put on GT500s), I can't say either. I've never run that track in such a car. And I'm sure you haven't either. But it would be challenged to run a 1:36, so equipped.

Both GTR and GT3 are right at the Z06 level... FACT.

At the 'Ring, yes, depending on the Package and tires fitted. THIS IS AN IMPORTANT POINT YOU CONTINUE TO IGNORE.

A Z06-Z07 @ Barber is quicker than 1:36 on Michelin Sport Cups with C-C brakes. And it ran 7:22+ @ the 'Ring.


So, your saying that the z28 is all tire?

No. But the tires contribute to the overall performance of the car. The car was tuned to those specific tires, instead of those Pep Boys tires Ford puts on the GT 500, and Corvette used to put on those early, much slower Z06s.

You know, the '06 Z06 than turned a 7:42 @ the 'Ring. 20 seconds over 6 years came from somewhere, didn't it? So it MUST have been brakes 'n tires, no?

 

[Gman11Gt]

Regardless of the tires on the Z28, it sill was impressive to outrun the GTR and the 911 in the Motor trend comparison. The unique selling points of the Z28 was the fact that it inspired spirited driving and was more rewarding from an enthusiasts standpoint. I value this the most important aspect driving a high end sports car. That is amazing to pick it over the 911, and not really a surprised about the GTR from a driving standpoint. Personally, I care about that more then a few tenths here and there for bragging rights. I have to respect the Z28 for that, but don't like the fact it can't find a sanction body to race in.

I would shelve the track tires for street tires if I was to buy one, then keep those to let it loose on weekend at the track. The sound of the Z28 in that video won me over as well compared to the GTR and 911. I just can't get over the crappy looks of the Z28 though, but somehow has grown on me more on the plus side.

I am sure Ford is well aware of the times and articles on the Z28 and even though publicly they are watching and basing more performance on the BMW and 911, it has the Z28 on watch. The formula for performance and bang for the buck is for the taking if they decide to make a drivers car out of the GT350.

I am totally with Pill on some points, it has expensive brakes and tires that you pay a ton for but in the end, can't find a sanction body to just roll up in it and be competitive. The Z28 will be one of those collectables that "collects dust" more then anything else.

 

[Taneras]

1) Ask Lieberman. He's on Facebook, daily.

No, I'm asking you. You said that Jonny made a valid point so you must understand what he's saying. If so, you can answer my questions because I don't understand his point.

2) ANY car that has C-C brakes and DSSV dampers will cost more than one without.

Thanks Captain Obvious, now what does this have to do with the Z28 having specific brakes and dampers automatically meaning that it should cost more than its mid 70k price?

 

[Taneras]

Anyone MORE interested in 1/4-mile straight line performance is NOT the core customer for the Z/28. Period.

And that's my point, apples and oranges are being compared here. A fair amount of the GTR's and GT3's budget goes towards acceleration, and a small amount still goes for some of the items the Z28 shed to save weight and money (A/C, stereo, and sound deadening).

If you want apples to apples and still give the Z28 oral, then demand that it also match the GT3 and GTR in other areas and still cost so much less. Until then, its lacking in other areas those cars still deliver in, so its understandable that it costs a lot less.

 

[Taneras]

Are you a retired crash test dummy? How many times does "Corvette Z06" show up on this chart? Porsche? GT-R? What years? What equipment?


http://nurburgringlaptimes.com/lap-times/lap-times-top-100/
Top 100 Rank

Manufacturer & Model

Lap Time

Onboard Video

Year

1. Radical SR8LM 6:48.00 Watch Onboard '09 2. Radical SR8 6:56.08 Watch Onboard '05 3. Porsche 918 Spyder 6:57.00 Watch Onboard '13 4. Nissan GT-R Nismo 7:08.68 Watch Onboard '15 5. Gumpert Apollo Speed 7:11.57 Watch Onboard '09 6. Dodge Viper SRT-10 ACR 7:12.13 Watch Onboard '10 7. Lexus LFA Nurburgring Package 7:14.64 Watch Onboard '12 8. Donkervoort D8 RS 7:14.89 Watch Onboard '05 9. Porsche 911 GT2 RS 7:18.00 Onboard N/A '10 10. Radical SR3 Turbo 7:19.00 Watch Onboard '03 11. Nissan GT-R 7:19.10 Onboard N/A '13 12. Chevrolet Corvette ZR1 7:19.63 Watch Onboard '12 13. Dodge Viper ACR 7:22.1 Watch Onboard '09 14. Chevrolet Corvette Z06 Z07 Package 7:22.68 Watch Onboard '11 15. Gumpert Apollo Sport 7:24.00 Onboard N/A '07 16. Nissan GT-R 7:24.22 Watch Onboard '11 17. Maserati MC12 7:24.29 Watch Onboard '04 18. Pagani Zonda F Clubsport 7:24.65 Onboard N/A '05 19. Lamborghini Aventador LP700-4 7:25.00 Onboard N/A '11 20. KTM X-Bow R 7:25.00 Onboard N/A '11 21. Ferrari Enzo 7:25.21 Watch Onboard '02 22. Mercedes SLS AMG Black Series 7:26.40 Watch Onboard '14 23. Nissan GT-R 7:26.70 Watch Onboard '08 24. Porsche 911 GT3 RS 4.0 7:27.00 Watch Onboard '11 25. Ferrari 458 Italia 7:28.00 Watch Onboard '09 26. McLaren MP4-12C 7:28.00 Onboard N/A '10 27. Porsche Carrera GT 7:28.71 Watch Onboard '03 28. Mercedes SLS AMG GT 7:30.00 Onboard N/A '12 29. Porsche 911 GT2 7:31.00 Onboard N/A '07 30. Porsche 911 Turbo S 7:32.00 Onboard N/A '10 31. Pagani Zonda F 7:33.00 Onboard N/A '05 32. Porsche 911 GT3 RS 7:33.00 Onboard N/A '10 33. Koenigsegg CCX 7:33.55 Watch Onboard '06 34. Koenigsegg CCR 7:34.00 Onboard N/A '04 35. Audi R8 GT 7:34.00 Onboard N/A '10 36. Nissan GT-R Spec-V 7:34.46 Onboard N/A '09 37. RUF RT12 7:35.00 Watch Onboard '05 38. Chevrolet Camaro Z/28 7:37.47 Watch Onboard '14 39. Porsche 911 Carrera S 7:37.90 Watch Onboard '11 40. Porsche 911 Turbo 7:38.00 Onboard N/A '06 41. Lexus LF-A 7:38.00 Onboard N/A '10 42. Lamborghini Gallardo LP 570-4 Superleggera 7:38.00 Onboard N/A '10 43. Ferrari 430 Scuderia 7:39.00 Watch Onboard '07 44. Lamborghini Murcielago LP640 7:40.00 Watch Onboard '06 45. McLaren Mercedes SLR 7:40.00 Onboard N/A '03 46. Porsche 911 GT3 7:40.00 Onboard N/A '09 47. Chevrolet Camaro ZL-1 7:41.27 Watch Onboard '11 48. Porsche 911 GT3 7:42.00 Onboard N/A '06 49. Radical SR3 7:42.00 Onboard N/A '02 50. Lamborghini Murcielago LP 670-4 SuperVeloce 7:42.00 Onboard N/A '09 51. Chevrolet Corvette Z06 7:42.90 Onboard N/A '05 52. Porsche 911 GT3 RS 7:43.00 Onboard N/A '03 53. Pagani Zonda C12 S 7:44.00 Onboard N/A '02 54. Audi R8 V10 5.2 FSI 7:44.00 Onboard N/A '09 55. Mercedes CLK 63 Black Series 7:45.00 Onboard N/A '07 56. Gardner Douglas GD T70 Spyder 7:45.00 Onboard N/A '10 57. Mercedes C 63 AMG Coupe Black Series 7:45.00 Onboard N/A '11 58. Porsche 911 GT2 7:46.00 Onboard N/A '00 59. Lamborghini Gallardo Superleggera 7:46.00 Onboard N/A '07 60. Jaguar XJ220 7:46.37 Watch Onboard '92 61. Lamborghini Murcielago LP-640 E-gear 7:47.00 Watch Onboard '07 62. Ferrari 599 GTB Fiorano 7:47.00 Onboard N/A '06 63. Wiesmann GT MF5 7:47.00 Onboard N/A '08 64. Porsche 911 Turbo 7:47.00 Onboard N/A '09 65. Porsche 911 GT3 RS 7:48.00 Onboard N/A '06 66. BMW M3 GTS 7:48.00 Onboard N/A '10 67. Alpina B3 GT3 7:49.00 Onboard N/A '10 68. Lamborghini Murcielago 7:50.00 Onboard N/A '02 69. BMW M3 CSL 7:50.00 Onboard N/A '03 70. Porsche 911 Carrera S 7:50.00 Onboard N/A '08 71. Mercedes SL65 AMG Black Series 7:51.00 Onboard N/A '09 72. Jaguar XKR-S 7:51.00 Onboard N/A '11 73. Lamborghini Gallardo 7:52.00 Onboard N/A '03 74. Ford GT 7:52.00 Onboard N/A '04 75. Porsche Panamera Turbos S 7:52.00 Onboard N/A '11 76. Lamborghini Gallardo LP560-4 7:52.00 Onboard N/A '08 77. Mercedes CLK DTM 7:54.00 Onboard N/A '04 78. Porsche 911 GT3 7:54.00 Onboard N/A '03 79. Ferrari F430 7:55.00 Onboard N/A '05 80. Subaru WRX STI 7:55.00 Watch Onboard '10 81. Caterham R500 1.8L K Series 7:55.00 Onboard N/A '99 82. BMW M5 7:55.00 Onboard N/A '11 83. Porsche 911 Turbo 7:56.00 Onboard N/A '00 84. Ferrari 360 CS 7:56.00 Onboard N/A '03 85. Ferrari California GT 7:56.00 Onboard N/A '09 86. Porsche Panamera Sport Chrono Turbo 7:56.00 Onboard N/A '09 87. Porsche Panamera Turbo 7:56.00 Onboard N/A '09 88. Chevrolet Corvette Z06 7:56.00 Onboard N/A '02 89. Mercedes-Benz SLS AMG Coupé Electric Drive 7:56.23 Watch Onboard '13 90. Porsche 911 GT3 7:56.33 Onboard N/A '99 91. Honda NSX-R 7:56.73 Watch Onboard '02 92. Audi RS4 7:58.00 Onboard N/A '05 93. Jaguar XKR-S Convertible 7:59.00 Onboard N/A '12 94. Chevrolet Corvette C6 7:59.00 Onboard N/A '04 95. Porsche 911 Carrera S 7:59.00 Onboard N/A '04 96. Cadillac CTS-V 7:59.32 Watch Onboard '09 97. Mercedes C63 AMG Coupe 8:01.00 Onboard N/A '11 98. Mercedes C63 AMG Coupe Performance Pkg 8:01.00 Onboard N/A '11 99. Bugatti EB 110 SS 8:01.00 Onboard N/A '95 100. Nissan Skyline R33 GT-R 8:01.00 Onboard N/A '95

Not a CURRENT SINGLE FORD TIME. And God knows they've been there, haven't they?

Not even SID's video game GT 500 time.

BTW, the Z/28 vs. GT-R vs. Turbo S occurred @ Barber, NOT the 'Ring.

Several things

1.) There is a Ford time in that list, I bolded it. And that's a really suspect time for a Ford GT.
2.) This has got to be one of the most lazy attempts at compiling a list of lap times I've ever seen. Not going to count, but well over half of those lap times are even to the second. There's nothing official about that list.
3.) The GT500's time is listed here (also a lazy list): http://fastestlaps.com/tracks/nordschleife.html So I guess its all in which list you choose. The only Camaros that I've seen low on any ring list are the Z28 and ZL1. Ford doesn't make a high dollar car like the Z28 at this time, and the ZL1 (which is a fair comparison to the GT500) was actually slower if you accept the 7:39 GT500 time. That list has a Camaro SS (non 1LE) running a 8:20ish time. The BMW M3, a close match to a Mustang GT w/ track pack, ran a 8:05 lap. I'd imagine a Boss or Boss LS would shave at least a few seconds off that time and would be on the list. But keep thinking its one sided...

You know, the '06 Z06 than turned a 7:42 @ the 'Ring. 20 seconds over 6 years came from somewhere, didn't it? So it MUST have been brakes 'n tires, no?

Sounds about right. So its not so much Chevy's superior engineering as much as it is Ford's cheapness on "Pep Boys tires"?

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