GT350 vs. Z/28

[Grimace427]

Brian is the Global Communications Coordinator... Media Press Releases and Global Marketing Strategies. The info released was probably a mass media briefing with a press packet. I'm not 100% sure but, I don't think that was intentional. There are other sources quoting him on a "Standard GT". I missed Dave's comments on the GT vs. Boss, I always thought Brian's statement was the only slip.

Here is the Q&A with Dave Pericak:

Q: How will the (GT) track pack perform?
A: The track pack is going to outperform the Boss for sure.

http://www.mustang6g.com/forums/showthread.php/q-with-dave-1313.html



[ame]

It appears that the media is about 2-3 months ahead of what the public knows... They possibly may already have the initial reports done, even with Ford's official photo's of the GT350.

This is a problem for me. What comes out of the media sounds like wild speculation 90% of the time IMO and really makes it difficult to wade through the BS to get some decent info. Aside from major changes like the IRS and Ecoboost, when they start out with twin turbo rumors and inflating numbers or things of that nature it ruins the credibility of the report.

Now assuming it is true what you say and they indeed have 2-3 months of advanced knowledge, this gives them leverage to hype things for the sake of viewers/ratings and could potentially let us enthusiasts down when the final info is actually released. Speculating on exciting stuff can be fun but when reports are published throwing words around like 'official' and 'confirmed' it really rubs me the wrong way.

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[thePill]

I think your absolutely correct Grim on the media. You have to accept the fact that those magazines are literally for entertainment purposes as well as spec reports. About 75% of my hearsay comes from that 2-3 months. Without that, I couldn't entertain you here.

Out of that 75%, less than 10% is right... and I only talk about three quarters of that...

I scored some of the exterior details and created that red color print. It was almost dead on... That was a lot of fun!

 

[Stuntman]

How is the Conti Z28.R so far from OEM?

 

[thePill]

How is the Conti Z28.R so far from OEM?

The Z/28.R is built by Pratt and Miller, it is no different than the Riley GS.R. In addition, all the hardware is missing. The brakes, shocks, wheels, tires, transmission... pretty much everything was changed. The LS7 is restricted but that was a no brainer.

 

[Trackaholic]

Does anyone think there will actually be a Carbon Ceramic Brake option? For those that want them, I say offer it. That said... I DO NOT want Ford to label a CC brake equipped GT350 an R. If anything, the R cars should remain in the spirit of the Boss 302 Laguna Seca. Weight reduction and de-contenting. I think we should have a Vote to SAVE THE SEATS... If the rear seat delete wasn't favorable...

Are you referring to CCB's in the GT350 street car? There have been pictures showing the CCB's in that car for a long time, and the newest batch of test cars now have wheel covers to hide the brakes. Hopefully they have true two-piece, directional vane, iron rotors with aluminum hats, and then CCB's as an option.

I also agree with keeping the rear seat. That is the primary reason for me to get the Mustang over something like a C7 Vette, so I hope Ford does have the seats available on their track optimized version of the car.

I wouldn't be opposed to weight reduction and de-contenting, depending on exactly what content was given up. I'd really be interested in some weight reduction like a painted carbon fiber hood and trunk lid (roof as well). Lighter wheels and brakes. Maybe a reasonable stereo but maybe not one with a massive sub. I would not mind lightweight seats, maybe manually adjusted.

Still want power windows, mirrors, and AC though, as I will be daily driving mine.

-T

 

[thePill]

G' morning Track! and yes, I'm talking about the CCB's on the GT350 mule. If I remember correctly, they were only testing the front kit at the time. It did not have rear CCB's. With Fords track record in options, they probably won't make it standard... and I thank god for that. Once we see the GT350, we can start a GT350R Request Thread and do a "Save the Seats" vote. I would actually love to see the results. I'm on board with you on this topic. Lightweight rear seats is the way to go, just as the '14 z28 did. Quick swap rear deletes would be cool... It's almost as if a factory rear seat delete has become a Mustang trademark over the last 20 years. The Cobra R's had deletes if I'm not mistaken.

Stuntman, the Z/28.R has less in common with the '14 z28 than the GS.R had with the SS. In Continental GS, competitors that were near OEM got to use the OEM name on the car. The Boss, M3, 997 and WRX were the first to meet this requirement I believe. Cars like the Camaro and Challenger had to use generic class names like GS.R. Don't ask me how Chevy got approved to use the Z/28 name in GS. I'm thinking the body kit or matching the OEM cars look.

The approved vehicles are permitted to make some changes and they are usually few. However, replacement parts usually need to come from the factory. The Boss 302S and R use OEM GT500 transmissions... It's different but, it came from the factory parts bin.

The Z/28.R only uses the LS7, the differential and the aero kit. I must say though, the Conti GS Camaro doesn't need front fender extensions on the race car, it looks silly with them on.

I think the GT350 will come with the maximum rotor size, and hopefully a two piece design with aluminum hats. In some cases, Carbon Ceramic Brakes are heavier than a Cast Iron kit. This was talked about briefly when Mark Reuss talked about the ZL1's brakes on Leno's Garage. The absolute lightest kit you can get is a two piece design with aluminum hat. The Carbon Ceramic Brakes are not a good street option though. In order for the CCB's to function properly, they need to be hot, real hot. That option would really limit the cars uses and that should be made clear. Everything else I can handle... a 295 is permitted with a waiver, there could be a high capacity Getrag or transmission cooler. The larger capacity in the Tremec was the reason for using it in the 302S and R.

Now that I have seen the GT and GTR's equipment, I am impressed. I imagine the GT350 will race along side the C7 Stingray because the GT has it covered. It will assume an actual Grand Tourer role now with a possible need for a lightweight, de-contented R. The content deleted also needs to be voted on too... Especially in the GT350R.

 

[Norm Peterson]

I also agree with keeping the rear seat. That is the primary reason for me to get the Mustang over something like a C7 Vette, so I hope Ford does have the seats available on their track optimized version of the car.

I wouldn't be opposed to weight reduction and de-contenting, depending on exactly what content was given up. I'd really be interested in some weight reduction like a painted carbon fiber hood and trunk lid (roof as well). Lighter wheels and brakes. Maybe a reasonable stereo but maybe not one with a massive sub. I would not mind lightweight seats, maybe manually adjusted.

Still want power windows, mirrors, and AC though, as I will be daily driving mine.

-T

↑↑↑ IOW, not a whole lot more luxurious than a Z/28. And I agree with your list, with the exception of a CF roof. Not sure how well the CF to metal joint would survive under track day and autocross use, or whether any track day groups might require a roll bar that would kill rear seat utility.

I wonder if the S550 structure would benefit enough by an X-brace behind the rear seatback . . .

Really nice would be if the rear seat cushion and seatback were both easily removable. The resulting increase in interior volume could be the difference between needing a tire trailer or not. Even though I don't need to put passengers in the back seat of my '08 very often, it still happens from time to time and I'd have to assume the same would happen with an S550.


Norm

 

[thePill]

↑↑↑ IOW, not a whole lot more luxurious than a Z/28. And I agree with your list, with the exception of a CF roof. Not sure how well the CF to metal joint would survive under track day and autocross use, or whether any track day groups might require a roll bar that would kill rear seat utility.

I wonder if the S550 structure would benefit enough by an X-brace behind the rear seatback . . .

Really nice would be if the rear seat cushion and seatback were both easily removable. The resulting increase in interior volume could be the difference between needing a tire trailer or not. Even though I don't need to put passengers in the back seat of my '08 very often, it still happens from time to time and I'd have to assume the same would happen with an S550.


Norm

Norm, the S550 should be using what Ford calls a "Lions Foot". It is a lower C-Pillar brace essentially... A braced connection between the two would be beneficial in my opinion.

Another opinion of mine would be to connect the Lions Foot braces on the floor. It isn't sub frame, it is braced on the inside. A brace could run along the floor and behind the seat. This would add lots of rigidity...

 

[Trackaholic]

↑↑↑ IOW, not a whole lot more luxurious than a Z/28. And I agree with your list, with the exception of a CF roof. Not sure how well the CF to metal joint would survive under track day and autocross use, or whether any track day groups might require a roll bar that would kill rear seat utility.

Norm

Yeah, I was wondering about the roof as well (that's how it ended up in parentheses). I was thinking that BMW was able to get the CF roof on the M3, but it's true that I don't know how successful that was. If the CF roof compromised the integrity of the structure, then I wouldn't be very interested.

As far as the similarity to the z28, it would probably be similar, although I don't think the z28 even has a radio. I also wouldn't mind the low weight extras like navigation, and other electronic stuff. I figure if it can fit in a phone that weighs a quarter pound, they can put it in the car without adding weight. I suspect the most significant weight adders are things like 10 way adjustable power seats. A simple manually adjustable seat would be fine with me if it was maybe 10 or 15 lbs lighter per seat.

So maybe not quite as hard core as the z28.

-T

 

[Stuntman]

Stuntman, the Z/28.R has less in common with the '14 z28 than the GS.R had with the SS. In Continental GS, competitors that were near OEM got to use the OEM name on the car. The Boss, M3, 997 and WRX were the first to meet this requirement I believe. Cars like the Camaro and Challenger had to use generic class names like GS.R. Don't ask me how Chevy got approved to use the Z/28 name in GS. I'm thinking the body kit or matching the OEM cars look.

The approved vehicles are permitted to make some changes and they are usually few. However, replacement parts usually need to come from the factory. The Boss 302S and R use OEM GT500 transmissions... It's different but, it came from the factory parts bin.

The Z/28.R only uses the LS7, the differential and the aero kit. I must say though, the Conti GS Camaro doesn't need front fender extensions on the race car, it looks silly with them on.

The Z28.R is as much of a GS-classed Z28 as any of its competition is related to its street car counterpart. Its also one of the few cars that has OEM bodywork and aero (except Camaros always ran carbon hoods, doors, and trunk). I'm sure the race teams would rather keep the extensions on for better on track performance.

As far as the BMWs carbon roof, its ~20lbs lighter than steel and ~40lbs lighter than a sunroof equipped M3. They're structurally bonded to the steel and don't have a problem with rigidity, and are probably stronger than a steel roof.

 

[FATTBoss]

Just thought of another reason NOT to call the GT a GTR or even have a GTR option. Why call it that when you are planning on bringing out the GT350? Why create confusion? I think Ford should just have a GT that is plain faster and all around better performer than my Boss 302, and then bring out the GT350 as the dedicated track rat.

And yes, even the 15" 6 piston Brembos will clear my 18x10 Team Dynamics wheels.

 

[thePill]

The Z28.R is as much of a GS-classed Z28 as any of its competition is related to its street car counterpart. Its also one of the few cars that has OEM bodywork and aero (except Camaros always ran carbon hoods, doors, and trunk). I'm sure the race teams would rather keep the extensions on for better on track performance.

As far as the BMWs carbon roof, its ~20lbs lighter than steel and ~40lbs lighter than a sunroof equipped M3. They're structurally bonded to the steel and don't have a problem with rigidity, and are probably stronger than a steel roof.

I think not... The M3, Boss and 997 are near OEM, replacement parts need to be OEM as well. The Z/28 has Carbon Fiber panels... It shouldn't even be permitted in that class. I repeat, the GS.R and Z/28.R are almost identical... it has more in common with the old Challenger GS.R. The Z/28.R is another 3rd Party car. I'm really not interested in talkin about a Pratt Miller creation.

OEM Aero? They wouldn't need fender flares in GS... Those look really cheap. Not sure if you guys know this or not... The Boss, M3, 997 and old WRX were OEM on the outside. Who cares!!!

Only Chevy would try and market that crap. That body kit on the Z looks elementary. The Boss 302R looked exactly the same as the OEM Boss... It didn't need ground effects...

No, once the car turns into a Carbon fiber work of art, it goes out the window. The 5th Gen is an awful racing platform.

Edit: Even reciting Team Camaro's nonsense over here (and believing it) is bad. Let's not mislead people in that direction. Say the car is close to factory THEN talking about the CF panels is counter-productive.

 

[thePill]

Just thought of another reason NOT to call the GT a GTR or even have a GTR option. Why call it that when you are planning on bringing out the GT350? Why create confusion? I think Ford should just have a GT that is plain faster and all around better performer than my Boss 302, and then bring out the GT350 as the dedicated track rat.

And yes, even the 15" 6 piston Brembos will clear my 18x10 Team Dynamics wheels.

I think your only confusing yourself...

GT
GTR (Motorsport) GS, T2 and everything else
GT350
GT350R (Motorsport) GT, GTS and T1

Don't let these small things confuse you.

I'm glad your Brembo's fit...

Edit: There have always been 2 GT's, Base and Track Pack... I want to do away with the Base and Track Pack bullshit.

 

[Grimace427]

Edit: There have always been 2 GT's, Base and Track Pack... I want to do away with the Base and Track Pack bullshit.

The track pack is and will always be just an option. It in no way makes an all new model, especially since the only worthy parts on the last version were the Brembo brakes and Torsen diff.

 

[thePill]

The Challenger and Camaro both require major changes to race GS. The both have equally bad track records... and it's fantastic the Camaro's glue on aero made it... But nothing else did. It was a waste of my time. Let's stop and give Chevy a pat on the back for an limp d!cked attempt at a Z/28. If you absolutely need to change that much equipment to be allowed on the track, you shouldn't be there. I'm sure those that opt for a spoiler are charged in restrictive plate.

It isn't a Chevy product, it is built by Pratt Miller. I guess that's close enough to OEM... I didn't really see an LS7 Camaro as a threat anyway. It's a very funny joke, but not winning any championships that way. They should have developed the Z/28.R first, then scaled it back to OEM. They didn't test that piece of shit until 4 days before the race. It's bad, I doubt we will see anything productive from that setup.

Team Camaro only listed 3 things the z28 and Z/28.R had in common... That is ALL...

The M3 and Boss are closest to their OEM cars, the 997 is close too. The WRX was also near OEM. There are some changes BUT, for the most part, it is as close as you can get unless it's the '60s again. Chevy, like Dodge, most likely didn't have the money to participate... So, you get 6 wins in 5 seasons...

Edit: I can count on one hand how many changes the Boss 302 had from the Boss 302R. See how I worded that???

The race car came first, developed on the race track. The z28??? backwards... BMW and Porsche also invest in this method... Corvette too.

You should take note, those idiotic fender extensions are not needed to clear a 10 inch tire in Conti. The GS had no problems... Dumb asses didn't think about that one...

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