GT350 vs. Z/28

[thePill]

Um... The Challenger has NEVER won a race in the GS class.

The Z/28.R's fender extensions widens the fenders, which allows for teams to use wheel spacers to increase the track width of the car to stay within the rule that you have to keep the top half of the tire within the body work. Wider fenders = wider track width = more grip. So 'glued in fender extensions' are a competitive advantage.

Again, the Boss 302Rs and BMW M3's all have non OEM wings and are actually worse in this regard than the OEM aero used on the Z/28.R

In this particular class, air is pushed over the roof and onto the raise spoiler. A duck tail is too low... Trust me, I am a Motorsport Chassis Fabricator and Engineer and have a degree to prove it. That is an ass backwards assumption. Almost as idiotic as not knowing where the LS7 comes from.

If Dodge didn't win a GS class race (Grand Am site is gone, so are historical results), would that make you feel better about the piss poor 5th Gen performance? 6 wins in 5 seasons is bad, really bad.... It's so bad, I'm not even sure they should continue the embarrassment... Because it is embarrassing...

Please go look at the photo's taken of the Z/28.R... The 18x10's are in a stock location, or so it appears. The outside of the tire is about an inch away from the extensions... Are you not seeing this? If the track was altered to compete, that's another sign of an unfit platform. You shouldn't need to change suspension components, brakes, wheels, tires, track, springs, struts, body panels, transmission, shafts, cooling and god knows what else. It's lame, limp dicked and undermining to OEM brand racing. The Camaro is an awful option for any kind of racing... Anyone that says different either works at Chevy or sells Camaro parts.

They NEED 7 liters because the Camaro, in fact, licks balls. They only wanted the badge on there and the cheap Autozone aero so it APPEARED legitimate. They are lying to you. Quick to talk about the OEM aero but completely hide the fact it's a Carbon Fiber Frankenstein. It's dirty no matter how you slice it and quite frankly, it really doesn't deserve the GT350 comparison.

What a joke... The Camaro didn't get on the podium for almost TWO seasons and it was a 3rd at that. That is comical, funny because this piece of shit is constantly marketed as a performance car. When it's ass is handed to it, by a Mustang, in every class they meet...

FACT...

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[thePill]

Yes, it's coincidence... A specific event occurred mid season 2011 (June) that caused that sudden Camaro shift. The event was outlined in detail in the z28 Assault Thread.

Mustang GTR is a registered trademark of Ford Motor Company, not making that up.

Will a winless Challenger make you feel better about the Camaro's god awful track record? If that was impressive then they just pissed it all away in the GS.R. The Z/28.R brought on an additional 100lbs and an engine restriction. That is how you don't do well in racing.

I don't usually like to be mean, I'm actually a happy person. But... If you don't know what the engine is in the car in the main topic, your gonna get names thrown at ya'. Your original debate, if you remember, was the laughable "Just as OEM as everyone else" statement. You were mis or uninformed at best. Draggin in historical results of a car that is just as useless as the one your bringing up is childish. You simply are trying to counter-argue with crap I don't even care about, on cars not discussed, years ago, in another dimension. You were wrong, debate over, let's move on...

My original argument stands, the Z/28.R has less in common with the "Z/28" than the GS.R did with the SS.

 

[thePill]

Being incorrect can happen, continuing to believe your correct when your not is a different issue. You would be in this column... Don't continue to push Chevy marketing here. The Z/28.R is a far shot from the OEM car. A perversion of the term "factory racing" in its purist form. I understand if your a Camaro fan and a regular at Camaro5. I understand it was a big let down... You guys can continue to be ate up about it if you want. I, thePill, did not design the z28. I am not the reason for its short comings in every performance aspect. It's not my fault, I never misled the fansbase... It was in black and white before they built the car. Did they overlook the Corvettes problems with the LS7 in racing? From the very start, this was nothing more than the previous gen Z28's. Sure it performs better, but they are still not on the track.

...If I had the time to search every aspect of a post, I would... I just don't have time for that. If you can't defend your original argument don't bring useless topics in to help you out. The Boss, M3 and 997 are near OEM... deal with it. The Camaro (and Challenger) needed MAJOR upgrades to compete. That is why I brought the Challenger into the mix. It didn't deserve to be there and neither does the Camaro...period. You brought up the Aston? Also a heavy car? Didn't deserve to be there, teams have dropped them.

I absolutely was wrong about the brakes, the Boss 302.R uses OEM brakes... However, I don't think it was always like that. Before mid-'11, the cars were different in many aspects. Once the fat boys were allowed to race, everything got slowed down. You know, those cars that were developed on the track by Ford, BMW and Porsche? Those almost purpose built Grand Am cars, developed in Grand Am, during the season... Then two out of shape cars enter and everything got slower. NASCAR took over as well...

Again, when I brought up the Mustang GTR, I said it was to signify the Mustangs return to Motorsport. From the SCCA to the FIA. You brought up a campaign that "never took off". You forgot about GT3 didn't ya'? I never compared the chassis. The platform DID survive the FIA's approval and required no major changed to the shell. It was a road racing comeback... Most of the topics incorrect was dumb shit you brought up to save your ass from your original statement.

I strongly suggest you don't read this thread if what you read bothers you to a personal level. Because it will get really, really bad in a few, short weeks... ;)

It's going to be a good 2014 for my team, because the speed bump Chevy just put up isn't enough to stop SVT. Especially after the product Team Mustang just engineered.

 

[thePill]

I'm partially inclined to asked how a GS class mandated and specific roll cage changed from GS.R to Z/28.R? That cannot be changed...

Another thing, the Z/28.R is in its development season, once it's all said and done, it will likely have a similar wing.

The GTR did have a lot in common with the GT3 cars, drivetrains were similar and body shells were intact . The Mustang GTR was the basis for the FR500, which was the base for the FIA and Grand Am GT cars. It spawned the 5.3 Yates engine from the Cammer if I remember correctly. The short lived "Boss GT" was a product of GTR research, as well as the entire Boss program. In that logic, the SSX wouldn't be related to the GS.R, Z/28.R, GT.R, and the GTS's ZL1 (lol). Another reason I used the word "similar" and not being as general as your "Just as OEM as anyone else" statement.

Civil? You won't find that in here, in the middle of a Vs. topic. I'm gonna get even more abrasive once the GT350 rolls out. Especially when Team Camaro's guns aren't loaded...

 

[Grimace427]

Correct me if I'm missing something, this looks like a Boss 302R with OEM aero.

http://www.tcmotorsports.net/index.php/2009/01/arrive-and-drive/
http://www.tcmotorsports.net/index.php/gallery/?album=1&gallery=16

 

[Grimace427]

 

[thePill]

Thanks buddy, that was pre-NASCAR, 2011. Those were called the Boss 302R.

The current model is the Boss 302R1, which I talked about briefly in the Assault thread. The whale tails were added and, it appears, brake sizes have changed.

The Z/28.R's current spoiler only functions at lower speeds, above 50mph though... The air flows over the deck lid. Therefor, OEM spoilers are no good. These cars average 60-70mph on most tracks.

I believe the Z/28.R will eventually need to upgrade. During its development season, Team Camaro is taking a marketing approach here. They won't be winning races in development season, why not make it appear OEM.

That's all they want, to appear legitimate. They couldn't have over looked that many details during R&D. It was intentional... There is no way that many mistakes were made.

He also assumes that because the fender extensions are there, the Z has an increased track. If that's accurate, it's sad... If it isn't true, those trashy fender extensions were not needed. By the looks of it, the 18x10s don't fill the fenders. It looks very silly... I imagine those will be gone once a caution is called to clean those off the track. Conti is a full contact class, those won't last long.

The cost of a GS spec Boss 302R1 is $129,000...

The cost of an old Riley Camaro GS.R was $225,000

The cost of an LS7, Z/28 badged GS.R? Probably more...

 

[Stuntman]

Both the boss and m3 were I produced with oem aero but quickly were allowed aftermarket wings. They are not mandatory but once approved, everyone runs them. Just like the fr500c initially did not have a wing either.

 

[Grimace427]

That makes sense, and I assume the same will happen with the Z28R. Not too many duck tail wings in motorsports, not very many pedestal wings on the streets(except on Hondas of course).

 

[thePill]

Both the boss and m3 were I produced with oem aero but quickly were allowed aftermarket wings. They are not mandatory but once approved, everyone runs them. Just like the fr500c initially did not have a wing either.

Yeah, pretty much what I said a few post back.

Another thing, unless my phone is malfunctioning, the historical results are blank. Only the track name is listed... I tried clicking on some options but nothing. www.imsa.com/continental-tire-sportscar-challenge-historical-resultsstandings

Edit: Did Jan Heylen not race in Grand Am? I thought for sure he did...

 

[thePill]

Another thing I wasn't aware of... The Boss 302R does come with OEM brakes. According to Ford Racing, it comes standard with the 14 inch Brembo kit. Those Brembo's eventually trickled down to the OEM Boss. I never knew that the track pack GT's Brembo's were in fact developed in Grand Am. I didn't even know they fit... I would love to see how a 15 inch Brembo fits in an 18 inch wheel. Must be tight...

 

[Pablo GT350]

Sebring this weekend.
https://www.facebook.com/roger.miller158

TV on fox sports 1 saturday at 10 am
http://www.imsa.com/races/62nd-annual-mobil-1-twelve-hours-sebring-fueled-fresh-florida

 

[thePill]

It looks like production has already started on the 2015 Mustang (At least the line is functioning). Curb weights should be released soon. Getting closer!!!

 

[Taneras]

It looks like production has already started on the 2015 Mustang. Curb weights should be released soon. Getting closer!!!

Unless its right now, its too far away :headbonk:

 

[thePill]

Stevenson did good today, too bad Pratt Miller did the work. There would have been some glory to be had if they would have built the car themselves.

This could have been a great season for them, they came so close last year. If you require 7 liter to be competitive in the class, you should be ashamed of yourself. It's probably the most pathetic thing I have seen in competitive racing.

At those speeds, I have reason to believe that 80mm restriction is just 10mm under stock. An almost unrestricted, Pratt Miller race car will be hard to beat. The M3 and Boss throttle bodies are restricted by almost 40%.

I guess the minimum 400hp rule has been waved for the Z/28.R? Is this going to be a pity Championship awarded to Chevy just for staying positive?

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