Gt vs 350

[Houston Kid]

I take you have several thousand miles of seat time in both?

Placebo effect is an interesting phenomenon.

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[jake_zx2]

I understand your feelings are hurt and you will argue to the end about this. But there is a noticeable and significant difference. Both are great cars though, and there's nothing wrong with Mustang GTs. They are definitely a better performance bargain in my opinion. I paid low 30s for the GT and over 60 for the GT350. I don't think they are worth that difference in money. However, I was bored with my GT after a year and I'm still not bored with the GT350 3 years later. The GT350 is just a better fit for me personally.

I'm not hurt at all, just trying to throw some logic at this rather than baseless and rather absurd claims of a car with a minor suspension change being a completely different car that is in no way able to be matched by a GT. They feel different, yes. However, it is not significant (keep in mind, I'm referring to a PP2... equip a GT with magride and spring rates/sway bars similar to the GT350, and the difference is almost unnoticeable).

As I've said before, they're just cars for different kinds of people. Some people work better with what's offered from the GT, some with the GT350. Nothing wrong with either car.

A base GT vs a GT350 are in different leagues. I too had both and currently have a GT. Now that I’ve done all suspension upgrades they are now playing on the same field. The Magneride being the only major difference due to the ability to change the firmness of the shocks. As far as overall handling now, they are not that far apart. Minimal actually but slight edge to the GT350.

I would say same driver on same road course it might be a toss up on which car is faster due to the GT being faster on the straights on e85. I also upgraded to the Brembo so braking is equal.
So I’m saying if you throw about $5-6K at a base GT like mine, you can hang with a GT350 but there is no comparison between a base GT and a GT350.

I cannot comment on a PP car because I have no expierence in one.

Agreed. A stock base GT is a fairly significant difference from the GT350. But that also comes with the price tag that gives you wiggle room to make it an EXTREMELY similar (or possibly better) car. Again, as I've said before, the GT is the go-to if you love modding your car and want to build something of your own. The GT350 is the go-to if you want something that you can just jump into and have an excellent car without touching it.

No doubt and I completely agree on the GT350 feeling special (subjective I know) when driving the car. The combo of the engine note, rowing the gears, and the feel of the car cannot be replicated in a GT no matter what you do.
If that’s what you are looking for, GT350 all day. If you want to mod your car and get it close in overall performance then a GT is a good choice due to the way lower initial price point on a base GT.

The GT350 is a special car but for me the mods of a base ended up being more appealing.

"Special", as you said, is subjective. For me, a name doesn't make a car special as it does with many people on here. It's the experience I share with the car that makes it special to me.

Most if not all people do not realize, the 18-19 Magneride GTs and PP2 cars use the same heavy duty hub assembly as a GT350 which is actually a Lincoln parts bin piece used on MKS limos. I just did a bunch to my PP2 including springs, CC plates and now 3" studs and learned this fr ol m a forum freind. It's a major thing that nobody seems to mention that is another cool thing about the PP2.

As for all the MT82 issues; this is because 90% of the people on this forum beat the living shit out of them every day drag racing stop light to stop light. Most of the open track HPDE guys that run a MGW or Barton shifter NEVER experience any issues. If it ever becomes an issue there are Tremecs and now heavy duty MT82 builds that are not very expensive. I have to say one thing, the MT shifts so nice no matter what anyone says.

So a PP2 for 40k or so with warranty, MGW shifter, a FTB diff cooler, a set of pads, and stainless lines and you are saving 10k over even a GOOD used GT350 and 20k plus over a new!!!! Rarity on the two cars is similar as well as resale as I did a comparison earlier in this thread. Just don't over pay for either and you will be happy.

With a proper driver a PP2 car is turning better documented times on the track than a GT350 and not too far off of the R.

I love the GT350 as it's an awesome car that doesn't need a lot of upgrades to have a ton of fun in. Again, it was a consideration and I almost pulled the trigger on one. However, I really like to tinker and do upgrades and much of the items I would change out on a 350 are just too nice to take off and replace (like those beautiful Recaros). I felt I was paying for stuff I wouldn't use. The flat plane sounds great but there is a reason ALL of the FP350s and GT4 cars use a cross plane crank. I think the Coyote sounds amazing as well with the correct exhaust and getting over 500 at the wheels on one is a piece of cake with minor upgrades. Voodoo and Coyote both have issues but neither are really much to worry about unlike many of the chicken littles on this forum try to make you believe.

Both are great cars and anyone trying to decide which one to go with just needs to go with their heart and pocket book.

Agree with pretty much all of this. Just something to note, the hub assembly is shared between the 2 cars, but the spindle design is quite significantly different. That's what allows the GT350 to run radial mount calipers and gives it a different ball joint/control arm

 

[fiveoboy01]

I take you have several thousand miles of seat time in both?

Enough to know that most 350 fans exaggerate the differences. The 350 is no doubt the better car, but they're not that far apart - especially when you consider price.

The false consensus is that the 350 is some sort of magical car when the reality is that it can easily be duplicated for significantly less money. Physics and parts don't care what nameplate is on the fender, but people clearly do.

 

[foxcoupefan]

Agree with pretty much all of this. Just something to note, the hub assembly is shared between the 2 cars, but the spindle design is quite significantly different. That's what allows the GT350 to run radial mount calipers and gives it a different ball joint/control arm

Yes, thanks Jake I am aware. Lucky for 99% of people that will track their car PP1 or 2, a fluid change and some pads will usually be more than adequate except on maybe a handful of brake heavy tracks. The PP brake set up is truly amazing. Many guys I know never even change out lines and still don't run out of brakes during a hard session. Some cooling is always a plus.

If the wife would have allowed I would have searched out an FP350S but she wasn't having 120k for a Mustang. She was ok with me buying a 350 or PP2 and tearing in to the interior, putting a roll cage etc. I even told her the FP was already to go and I wouldn't have to dump any money in to it like I would the others. It didn't work.

 

[jake_zx2]

Yes, thanks Jake I am aware. Lucky for 99% of people that will track their car PP1 or 2, a fluid change and some pads will usually be more than adequate except on maybe a handful of brake heavy tracks. The PP brake set up is truly amazing. Many guys I know never even change out lines and still don't run out of brakes during a hard session. Some cooling is always a plus.

If the wife would have allowed I would have searched out an FP350S but she wasn't having 120k for a Mustang. She was ok with me buying a 350 or PP2 and tearing in to the interior, putting a roll cage etc. I even told her the FP was already to go and I wouldn't have to dump any money in to it like I would the others. It didn't work.

Haha I would LOVE an FP350S! They're really incredible cars

 

[foxcoupefan]

Haha I would LOVE an FP350S! They're really incredible cars

Yeah, me too!

I am going to mess around with the PP2 for a few years (at least 5) and see what is available after that. Although like I stated, I love tinkering. Main reason I bought a GT instead of a 350. It was factory hopped up just enough to keep me happy for a bit. I even considered a base GT, but I wasn't in to changing out brakes, diff, etc right away which I would have done. With the PP2 there is still a lot I can change but much of it that is plenty good for what I will use it for. Again, I love the PP2 wheels, splitter and more; the car just looks right to me.

I just want to build a fun wanna be race car for the street and the occasional track event. Every time I say that it ends up with a full cage, no interior and useless on the street. hahahahaha!

 

[Houston Kid]

Not accounting for the engine note of course.

Enough to know that most 350 fans exaggerate the differences. The 350 is no doubt the better car, but they're not that far apart - especially when you consider price.

The false consensus is that the 350 is some sort of magical car when the reality is that it can easily be duplicated for significantly less money. Physics and parts don't care what nameplate is on the fender, but people clearly do.

 

[jake_zx2]

Yeah, me too!

I am going to mess around with the PP2 for a few years (at least 5) and see what is available after that. Although like I stated, I love tinkering. Main reason I bought a GT instead of a 350. It was factory hopped up just enough to keep me happy for a bit. I even considered a base GT, but I wasn't in to changing out brakes, diff, etc right away which I would have done. With the PP2 there is still a lot I can change but much of it that is plenty good for what I will use it for. Again, I love the PP2 wheels, splitter and more; the car just looks right to me.

I just want to build a fun wanna be race car for the street and the occasional track event. Every time I say that it ends up with a full cage, no interior and useless on the street. hahahahaha!

Sounds like me! I was really considering getting PP2, but I figured a lot of the parts on it I would end up replacing anyways, so I just went with a non-PP and got the fancy cluster. Not a single regret! Already have most of the PP1 parts, will be getting DA coilovers and the PP rear cradle at the end of the season along with some 19x11 wheels, and it'll be pretty much ready for a few more years of fun!

I'm also building a fun street car. I already have a car with stripped interior and getting a cage and all that. My mustang is my race car that is still tame enough to drive on the street

 

[TomcatDriver]

It really comes to use case. Get what you want. Most people will not take either one to the track, and to push either one on the street is difficult without getting yourself in a lot of trouble. There is nothing wrong with driving more car than you actually use. Certainly they are both fundamentally S550s, and the same basic design, so of course you can equal or exceed GT350 performance with a GT, generally reducing the value of the car in the process. The pro's and con's are well understood. If you want a GT350 in the garage, the GT will not be one, no matter what. If you just want a comfortable wildly overpowered daily driver, the GT is probably a better choice.

In other news the GT350 just won the KBB best resale value for a sports car, beating out the Porsche Cayman.

 

[jake_zx2]

In other news the GT350 just won the KBB best resale value for a sports car, beating out the Porsche Cayman.

I saw this. I think they're lumping the R in with it, because this certainly isn't reflected in the standard GT350s. Meanwhile, I very rarely see USED GT350Rs selling for under original MSRP

 

[milner_7]

GT350= Buy it, drive it, enjoy it. Its special

GT=Buy it, mod it because your not satisfied, There are a billion of them. (Exaggeration of course)


Quit comparing them like they are competitors, they are not. They have 2 completely different uses. One is a track car you can drive on the street, the other is a street car you can drive on the track.

Each has its advantages and each owner will lean toward the side of what they drive.

 

[Erik427]

Can you really do this? Have you seen it done?

Yes it can be done.
Most buy the Aluminator and go from there.
A "Friend" of mine had a motor built.

Coyote crankshaft
Ford Performance cams
New and better rods.
Slightly longer (skirts) but lighter pistons.
Alloy Flywheel (Boss302)

Oil consumption greatly reduced.
Bottom end power greatly improved.

Easily out pulls other GT350s by a bunch, not even close.

When Ford switches over to the GT500 block? They need to switch back to a cross plane crank.

 

[Erik427]

I realize that there are books worth of posts out there about GT350 oil consumption. My personal experience is zero oil consumption. I use it like a car and I take it to the track. Oil consumption is not about the crankshaft. It's pistons/rings/valves/valve lift/valve seals, etc.

IMO the GT350 works great.



I've considered selling or trading the GT350 at some point, but then I would have to do the mods to whatever GT I buy for track use. I had to retrofit parts onto my tech pack car, but it's really nice having the factory integrated cooling solutions for diff and transmission cooling. With handling of the GTs getting better and better - tires, magneride, etc. the track cooling and brakes are really the most significant differences (if you ignore the engine and the Tremec box). All stuff you can add, I realize. I guess I'm too lazy to want to go through those mods after getting the mods on the GT350 completed.

Hack, the pistons tend to be too short.
At high rpms, blow by because of loss of ring seal is the most likely problem.
Many don't suffer from this, but many do.
Any performance advantages Ford was seeking is nullified by a extremely heavy and weirdly balanced flywheel.
Piston skirts being to short and ring package to compact was used to help lightweight the reciprocating assembly.

Don't get me wrong, I love the Voodoo. But it does have it's faults.

 

[Hack]

Enough to know that most 350 fans exaggerate the differences. The 350 is no doubt the better car, but they're not that far apart - especially when you consider price.

The false consensus is that the 350 is some sort of magical car when the reality is that it can easily be duplicated for significantly less money. Physics and parts don't care what nameplate is on the fender, but people clearly do.

I think you are miss-characterizing what I said. Some people are saying there's no difference. I say the difference is noticeable and significant - at least seat of the pants is significant for me.

If you want to compare a stock GT350 to a modded GT, yes they are closer. And I said that before. Heck, a modded GT could easily be faster than a GT350 on track. Just depends on what mods. Not really a meaningful comparison when you start adding mods. At that point you are comparing apples and oranges.

Don't get me wrong, I love the Voodoo. But it does have it's faults.

I agree. Nothing built by man is perfect. And the Voodoo has its share of flaws. It's an advantage for the Coyote in my opinion - if you are looking for the most reliable engine, the Voodoo may not be it. But swapping over to a cross plane crank doesn't solve any Voodoo issues related to burning oil. Those issues have to do with other aspects of the engine design/build, not specifically the crankshaft. That was my point.

 

[TomcatDriver]

I saw this. I think they're lumping the R in with it, because this certainly isn't reflected in the standard GT350s. Meanwhile, I very rarely see USED GT350Rs selling for under original MSRP

I looked a lot. 16 GT350s are typically going for low-mid $40K, 17's high $40s to low $50s. Yea, if you bought a 16 with $20K ADM resale kind of sucks, but if you measure from MSRP it's pretty good.

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