GM is pulling back on EVs

[sk47]

New EPA Ruling Will Make It Difficult to Buy Gas-Powered Vehicles in Only 7 Years (msn.com)

Hello; Not sure , but this may have already been posted here. So, a two-front attack on ICE. The other is about revising MPG ratings for EV's.

This is about tailpipe emissions.
I may live to see how much of a disaster this "green" and EV agenda becomes. For a while i figured to be gone before the consequences took hold, but I might make seven years.

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[sk47]

Did you read the part where I said that GM and Hyundai are better at developing lithium ion batteries than Toyota is? Their batteries can charge faster and still maintain long battery life. GM’s batteries are warranted 8 years, 100,000 miles. Same as Toyota’s (NHTSA requirement). Hyundai’s are warranted 10 years 100,000 miles.

I do not work for Toyota (but I own one) or Hyundai and I haven’t worked for GM since 2017. What’s the point?


You have absolutely zero evidence to base that on. You don’t even know how any particular EV manages cabin heat. There are multiple technical approaches to this. Not all automakers take the same approach. The Genesis in the picture that I posted shows that with AC on, range is 143 miles, with AC off, it’s 152. That’s a 6% efficiency penalty. EPA guidelines for ICE is that use of AC can impact fuel range by as much as 25%. Now, I am not going to claim that every EV has a 6% efficiency penalty and every ICE has a 25% AC penalty. That would be ridiculous. It all depends on conditions at the time and how hard the AC would need to work. What I will say is that this particular Genesis is well within the range of ICE norm, despite your assertion (with zero evidence) that it would “drop (t)he range a lot”.


You, I and Burkey would agree on pretty much most of this. I have never said that EV is for everybody. There are situations where ICE is the better solution. Thing is, as automakers move further along their electrification path, the situations where ICE is better than EV are dwindling. Early EV adopters bought EVs as a second or third vehicle. Maybe specifically for commuting, maybe short errands. As EVs have begun to cover more vehicle segments (SUV, CUV, family sized sedans) people started making the switch to where the EV became their primary vehicle and the ICE was reserved for those instances where it did the job better than the EV. I see by your signature that you have a Silverado and a Sentra. Do you also have a Mustang? Do you have the Silverado and Sentra to do the things your Mustang is not well suited for?

I can say for certain that as much as I enjoy driving my Camaro, when it’s family trip time, we’re taking either the Volt or the SRX. I don‘t have or want a pickup. For the 2-5 times a year that I need a pickup I’ll rent one or borrow my FIL’s pickup. Likewise, a number of EV drivers who have an EV as their only car recognize that for the 2-5 times a year that they need to drive more than the range of the vehicle in a single day, they have the option to rent an ICE if they are not comfortable with their ability to find fast charging.

Hello; Gee, I guessed correctly. You do not work for Toyota. Fancy that.

Hello; In all that range stuff you posted a lot of numbers but eventually acknowledge you do not know in general. Not a lot different than my comment that range OUGHT to drop a lot. You just throw a lot of irrelevant numbers around to get to a similar place.
"Now, I am not going to claim that every EV has a 6% efficiency penalty and every ICE has a 25% AC penalty"
By the way an ICE penalty of AC is nowhere near 25% in anything I have ever owned. Talk about an exaggeration.

Hello; Yeah have an ICE to use because the EV will not do some jobs. I still get it.

 

[martinjlm]

9 hour trip - maybe try a more appropriate form of transport. I would not drive 9 hours in Europe when trains and planes are MUCH quicker and cheaper.

Agreed. Most Americans would also take air travel over that length of a trip, but there are times when the car is a better choice. The US train (Amtrak) and interstate bus systems are not on par with what’s available in Europe. Also, when taking family, air travel cost can escalate rapidly. When my kids were younger we typically drove every year to our annual vacations on Hilton Head Island. On one hand, air travel got us there in a few hours. And we could rent a car for getting around once we’re there. But we’re buying four airline tickets. Very pricey. On the other, four can drive for about the same cost as one, we can take our own bikes and beach gear rather than having to rent that stuff when we got there and we wouldn’t need to rent a car. And with the money we save from avoiding the airfare we can have better dinners and pay for more activities. We could also vary our trips each year to pass through and explore different areas of the country. These days the only long trips I make in the Camaro is to attend CamaroFest in Bowling Green, Kentucky. 7-8 hours each way. But, of course the Camaro is the reason for being there so I kinda need to drive it there. Or trailer it like some of my club members. But then I’d need to own or rent a truck. Not worth it for one trip a year.

 

[martinjlm]

Hello; Gee, I guessed correctly. You do not work for Toyota. Fancy that.

Hello; In all that range stuff you posted a lot of numbers but eventually acknowledge you do not know in general. Not a lot different than my comment that range OUGHT to drop a lot. You just throw a lot of irrelevant numbers around to get to a similar place.
"Now, I am not going to claim that every EV has a 6% efficiency penalty and every ICE has a 25% AC penalty"
By the way an ICE penalty of AC is nowhere near 25% in anything I have ever owned. Talk about an exaggeration.

Hello; Yeah have an ICE to use because the EV will not do some jobs. I still get it.

Wow dude. Don’t know how or when to retreat, eh. You still haven’t said why I have or have not worked for Toyota is relevant. Are you implying something that could just easily be stated? If not, why does it matter? I posted actual numbers with photographic evidence. That sorta makes them relevant. The 25% number is not mine, it’s the EPA’s number and they are an authority on the matter. Moreso than you or me. So, you have never driven a car with a 25% AC penalty. Good on ya. Neither have I. Guess that means they don’t exist, right?

 

[sk47]

Wow dude. Don’t know how or when to retreat, eh. You still haven’t said why I have or have not worked for Toyota is relevant. Are you implying something that could just easily be stated? If not, why does it matter? I posted actual numbers with photographic evidence. That sorta makes them relevant. The 25% number is not mine, it’s the EPA’s number and they are an authority on the matter. Moreso than you or me. So, you have never driven a car with a 25% AC penalty. Good on ya. Neither have I. Guess that means they don’t exist, right?

Hello; Just had a notion you do not work for Toyota after reading your comments. Would be a "my bad" if I had turned out to be wrong, huh?

Hello; My car gets around 35 MPG give or take year round. I fill up every time I get fuel, often at the same place and often at the same pump. Biggest difference is between local driving and highway driving as far as MPG goes. Running the AC has to fall in the 1or 2 MPG's at most.
My truck has even less notable differences between AC and no AC. Nothing at all near 25% reduction of MPG, EPA or not. One thing seems certain, you will cast the greater negatives possible onto an ICE when you get a chance. Hurts your credibility a lot.

 

[martinjlm]

Hello; Just had a notion you do not work for Toyota after reading your comments. Would be a "my bad" if I had turned out to be wrong, huh?

So for full disclosure I should note all the companies I haven’t worked for before posting? (<— joke)

Hello; My car gets around 35 MPG give or take year round. I fill up every time I get fuel, often at the same place and often at the same pump. Biggest difference is between local driving and highway driving as far as MPG goes. Running the AC has to fall in the 1or 2 MPG's at most.
My truck has even less notable differences between AC and no AC. Nothing at all near 25% reduction of MPG, EPA or not. One thing seems certain, you will cast the greater negatives possible onto an ICE when you get a chance. Hurts your credibility a lot.

So at 35 mpg with a 2 mpg loss you’re experiencing a 6% efficiency difference using AC. The Genesis GV60 I drove indicated a 6% efficiency loss using AC. Seems right on par.

 

[K4fxd]

My mustang GT loses about .1 MPG when using the AC. It is so small I don't notice it.

 

[sk47]

So for full disclosure I should note all the companies I haven’t worked for before posting? (<— joke)


So at 35 mpg with a 2 mpg loss you’re experiencing a 6% efficiency difference using AC. The Genesis GV60 I drove indicated a 6% efficiency loss using AC. Seems right on par.

Hello; Here is a point to consider. Even in your own real world experience it seems you have never had a 25% loss of MPG's using AC in an ICE vehicle. I say this as you have not posted such an experience. Yet you threw out an outrageous 25% number. Some might figure you have an agenda, hey?
Like K4fxd the difference in my pickup is small. I will not quibble too much about the Sentra but kind of figure the AC draw will be closer to 1 MPG than 2. But I have not done the calculations so cannot support the notion. Just have been tracking the MPG's at almost every fillup for 22 years.

 

[sk47]

The push for net zero has become a handy excuse to rip us off (msn.com)

Hello; This one explains itself. Supports one of my concerns about the green & EV push. I call it a "do without" future.

 

[martinjlm]

Hello; Here is a point to consider. Even in your own real world experience it seems you have never had a 25% loss of MPG's using AC in an ICE vehicle. I say this as you have not posted such an experience. Yet you threw out an outrageous 25% number. Some might figure you have an agenda, hey?
Like K4fxd the difference in my pickup is small. I will not quibble too much about the Sentra but kind of figure the AC draw will be closer to 1 MPG than 2. But I have not done the calculations so cannot support the notion. Just have been tracking the MPG's at almost every fillup for 22 years.

Did you not see in either of my posts where I said that was the EPA's number, not mine? I have not had a vehicle that has had that big of a draw for AC. But I have not driven every ICE vehicle in every situation. I couldn't tell you how much using AC in any of my cars impacts fuel economy. Never bothered to measure.

 

[sk47]

Did you not see in either of my posts where I said that was the EPA's number, not mine? I have not had a vehicle that has had that big of a draw for AC. But I have not driven every ICE vehicle in every situation. I couldn't tell you how much using AC in any of my cars impacts fuel economy. Never bothered to measure.

Hello; Did a short search. Found he same thing from the EPA but note it is a worst case situation. About time you stopped trying to present yourself as a neutral observer only giving out facts.

How Much Does the AC Affect Fuel Mileage | YourMechanic Advice
“Note that there is no single answer to this question, as there are a number of different factors in play. The actual temperature outside will have an effect, as will the size of your engine, the make and model of your car, the condition of your air conditioning system and many others. However, the US EPA notes that running the air conditioner in very hot weather can increase your fuel consumption by up to 25%, and that the effect of using the AC in a hybrid or electric vehicle can be even greater.”

 

[RagmopInKona]

Who said I hate ICE’s? I actually LOVE them.
I also loved cigarettes, but that doesn’t mean that I should’ve kept smoking.

Then sell your ice. Using your thought process you should sell ice and walk bike everywhere.

 

[Burkey]

Then sell your ice. Using your thought process you should sell ice and walk bike everywhere.

Yes, I should.
The trick is, it took me 30 years to quit smoking and it only happened after the right technology finally arrived.
I’ll quit THIS habit when the time is right.

I’ve always said that I’ll own my Mustang forever, but…..
Having recently seen some of the stuff that might be coming to market in the next few years, maybe that’s not the case anymore. Who knows when I might quit “smoking“ again?

 

[sk47]

Yes, I should.
The trick is, it took me 30 years to quit smoking and it only happened after the right technology finally arrived.
I’ll quit THIS habit when the time is right.

I’ve always said that I’ll own my Mustang forever, but…..
Having recently seen some of the stuff that might be coming to market in the next few years, maybe that’s not the case anymore. Who knows when I might quit “smoking“ again?

Hello; Took two years for me to quit cigarettes. No technology used soi do not understand that part. Good to be finished with tobacco. Sensible thing to do.

 

[Burkey]

Hello; Took two years for me to quit cigarettes. No technology used soi do not understand that part. Good to be finished with tobacco. Sensible thing to do.

I was smoking nearly 60 a day. I managed to quit for a week or so here and there but kept falling back into old habits.
My muscle memory was so ingrained that even when I did finally commence quitting I had a packet sitting on our outdoor table and sometimes I’d find myself with a lit cigarette in my mouth but no recollection of lighting it….just literally on autopilot.

Thats when I realised just how deep the habit actually runs.

Nicotine vapes allowed me to satisfy the nicotine urge whilst maintaining the physical action. Transitioning to non-nicotine broke the nicotine component and eventually I stopped vaping.

Many links in the chain of addiction, I just needed to break them one by one.

I‘m only posting my experience because it might help someone who’s struggling with it. It’s not always an easy thing to do.

As a side note, my wife has been quitting smoking for as long as I’ve known her, trying patches, pills, hypnosis, you name it. She even quit for her pregnancies and STILL jumped straight back onto the cigarettes as soon as possible. Vapes got her off the cigarettes. They might not be the solution for everyone, but I can tell you that I know a LOT of smokers who’re using them to successfully quit.

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