GM is pulling back on EVs

[sk47]

Have you ever visited and dealt with third world country people on their level? I don’t think in any of your endeavors you had to. Literally live and deal with these folks daily for months and years on end. I can tell you this, from personal experience, no one is going to change the way destitute people think in places like the continent of Africa or countries like Afghanistan, Pakistan and many other countries in South America. Their daily life consist of doing what ever they need to do in any way possible to put food on the table and feed their families. They don’t care about saving the world for anyone. They care about today and care less about tomorrow. No amount of education is going to change that because that’s the way it is.

What impact do you think you’re going to have in a country like Afghanistan with an illiteracy rate of 98%?
That’s a serious question. I want to know what you would do in a country like that.

Hello; In the Amazon basin there has been a slash and burn sort of farming going on for decades. Some background on the jungle ecosystems. Because of the warmth year-round and the rainfall there is not a growing season as in temperate zones. Things grow all year. Most of the nutrients are tied up in the living plants, animals and fungi. If a large tree dies it is broken down quickly compared to a temperate forest or plains ecosystem. The soil turns out to be thin of nutrients. A poor man with a family cuts and burns off a few acres to grow crops for subsistence living.
The soil gives out in a few years and he has to slash and burn a new patch in five to ten years. Starts the process all over again. Thousands of such families have been at it for decades. As you say they are not able to think about noble causes. They struggle to live day to day.

A fellow I knew In Harlan County KY had experience running heavy machinery. He went to Brazil in the 1970's and helped build the initial trans Amazonian highway. Find some aerial photos of that in time lapse over the decades. Every few years more and more side roads have branched off the main road, then smaller roads branched off them.

Back in the 1970's and early 1980's I took some graduate level ecology classes and attended summer study programs. One thing learned is how roads, water lines and electricity open up formerly pristine rural areas to development. Roads are usually first and the least overall impactful by themselves. They do set the stage for development. Electricity, when it follows is usually the more impactful thing. With electricity and a road, we can set up homes, shops, motels and small shopping centers. Add a water line along the route and extensive development usually follows. Forget the thermology for this.

I made this point a few times already but sense that those who call and consider me a moron and or unable to understand things, do not respond. The human population is nearly three billion above what could be fed with pre- industrial types of agriculture. Not just the massive machinery, though that is needed, but also the fossil fuel natural gas. Artificial fertilizer is made from natural gas. Ammonium nitrate I believe. The soil cannot support the crops on its own. Lots of side effects of course as the application is a gross endeavor. So much runs off and winds up in rivers and lakes. I think the massive dead zone at the mouth of the Mississippi River is due largely to this runoff. Of course, the massive earth churning farm machinery also adds soil erosion to the mix. A looming crisis far greater and peaking much sooner than climate change.

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[sk47]

On the bright side, at least they’ve given up arguing that climate change isn’t real.
You’re right though, he‘s pretty clever. Does a great job of misdirecting his audience with incomplete facts and (what should be) obvious omissions of facts.
It‘s amazing what can be achieved when you use the right language to persuade an audience who need very little persuading.

Hello; First I and others are not saying the climate is not changing. We have written many times the climate has changed throughout time and continues to change currently. I will even concede that we humans add to the scale a bit. So your first cryptic putdown is false.

I just watched both videos. Only found one section of question. That being the need to build so many commercial power grid storage batteries and the cost and time to do so. A 100 trillion dollar cost and the 400 years to build enough of them. We now know the up to recently somewhat hidden plan. That plan is to force us to buy BEV's and then use eminent domain powers of government to confiscate energy from our privately owned EV's when the grid needs it.
I can see some computer program keeping track of our daily EV use and deciding just how much energy the government will allow us to keep in our own EV batteries during a power event. I can see how this will be embraced by the true believers, at least till they have to live with such a system. Raises some very serious questions about those pesky rights some of us like so much.

Let me ask some more questions. Recently saw a story about how bad asphalt road paving is. Lamenting about the emissions from using the stuff. Particles in the air as well and stuff thrown out as the road surface wears.
Don't think they mentioned the natural gas often used to heat up the tar base in the story. There is an asphalt plant about seven miles from my house. They were making it today. I could see the smoke and could smell the hot stuff in the air. Ok the stuff is not real nice, but what will we pave the roads with that is any better? Cement? Maybe back to the old roman cobblestones?

By the way modern asphalt is largely recycled. The old road surface is ground up and trucked away to the plant. The ground up stuff has the rocks and old tar base in it. They reuse that stuff and only add enough new tar base and gravel as needed. For a few decades I was convinced recycling was a good thing to do.

Last thing on this reply to Burkey. Among your weakest arguments yet. The two videos got things correct with not really much, if any, of the incomplete or omitted facts you claim but do not itemize.

 

[Burkey]

Have you ever visited and dealt with third world country people on their level? I don’t think in any of your endeavors you had to. Literally live and deal with these folks daily for months and years on end. I can tell you this, from personal experience, no one is going to change the way destitute people think in places like the continent of Africa or countries like Afghanistan, Pakistan and many other countries in South America. Their daily life consist of doing what ever they need to do in any way possible to put food on the table and feed their families. They don’t care about saving the world for anyone. They care about today and care less about tomorrow. No amount of education is going to change that because that’s the way it is.

What impact do you think you’re going to have in a country like Afghanistan with an illiteracy rate of 98%?
That’s a serious question. I want to know what you would do in a country like that.

Mate, I’m currently watching a group of people living in a developed nation, complaining that THEIR way of life might change and resisting nearly any and all efforts to make that happen. We even see some disputing that change is even necessary.
We don‘t even need to venture to the third world to find evidence of resistance to change.

Watching someone complain that they might not be able to travel as far without stopping (minor inconvenience) while they point the finger at others who would LOVE to be wealthy enough to experience that type of inconvenience…..it’s really bizarre.

To be clear, I’m not putting you into any of the camps described above. You may or may not fit into them, but there are certainly some here who do.

But to the crux of the argument, you’re right. We won’t see the maximum benefit of the coming changes if some nations, particularly larger/bigger emitting nations decide to go against the grain. True. No contest.

 

[AZlb5.0]

Mate, I’m currently watching a group of people living in a developed nation, complaining that THEIR way of life might change and resisting nearly any and all efforts to make that happen. We even see some disputing that change is even necessary.
We don‘t even need to venture to the third world to find evidence of resistance to change.

Watching someone complain that they might not be able to travel as far without stopping (minor inconvenience) while they point the finger at others who would LOVE to be wealthy enough to experience that type of inconvenience…..it’s really bizarre.

To be clear, I’m not putting you into any of the camps described above. You may or may not fit into them, but there are certainly some here who do.

But to the crux of the argument, you’re right. We won’t see the maximum benefit of the coming changes if some nations, particularly larger/bigger emitting nations decide to go against the grain. True. No contest.

Honestly I just want common sense ideas moving forward. Something that’s going to work for everyone and that’s going to be the hardest thing because there will be nations that will absolutely push back and some with billions of people who have hundreds of million living at the lowest levels of poverty ever seen. It’s sad @Burkey to see what they go through with your own eyes compared to how much we have but they are happy living like that. They don’t need nor want our freedoms nor out innovations. That’s when I made up my mind to stop doing what I was doing. Pushing what has made us great on some folks is just absolutely cruel period. While I know that it’s hard to wrap your head around that it just absolutely is. Some folks are happy with a wood burning stove a hut in the middle of nowhere and raising their families. And to be honest after everything I’ve seen it’s not a bad idea.

I live on an acre and a half on a trailer and owe no one anything. After having a big ole 2800 sqft 5bed 3 bath house with a 2 car garage it’s the best thing I’ve ever done. I don’t even have a kitchen. I cook outside and have a couple of burners plates. We live in the middle of nowhere. The most peaceful life I’ve ever lived. Why would anyone want anything more is beyond me.

 

[K4fxd]

Watching someone complain that they might not be able to travel as far without stopping (minor inconvenience) while they point the finger at others who would LOVE to be wealthy enough to experience that type of inconvenience…..it’s really bizarre.

OK, I think I got it now. It's not fair the western countries have 24 hour electricity, food in our stores, gas in our gas stations and the freedom to travel. So instead of teaching these poor countries how to prosper, the answer is to punish and take from the wealthy countries.

Communism anyone?

They don’t need nor want our freedoms nor out innovations.

I agree, we should leave them be.

 

[Burkey]

Hello; First I and others are not saying the climate is not changing. We have written many times the climate has changed throughout time and continues to change currently.

That’s true, but some are most certainly arguing that CO2 isn’t causing it or perhaps in some cases, that yes, CO2; is causing it but that we can’t completely eradicate the problem, therefore no point in acting. There’s many different variations of the contrarian argument. I couldn't possibly try and represent each one accurately.

So your first cryptic putdown is false.

Not sure how it was an putdown, but ok. Play the victim if you must.

I just watched both videos. Only found one section of question.

Yes, and that’s exactly what I expected you to find. YOU are the target audience. Of course you failed to notice the issues that most on the opposite ”side” might see.
THAT is the problem.

It actually reminds me of The Great Global Warming Swindle.
Most of the people watching it were already primed to be told what they already believed. That’s why most viewers failed to notice the careful editing that made scientists appear to contradict themselves. The viewers failed to notice that some of the graphs had been deliberately manipulated, times scales shifted, entire data removed….etc etc.

.

 

[Burkey]

OK, I think I got it now. It's not fair the western countries have 24 hour electricity, food in our stores, gas in our gas stations and the freedom to travel. So instead of teaching these poor countries how to prosper, the answer is to punish and take from the wealthy countries.

Wow. Could you misrepresent my position a little more?

LOL @“communism”
Yes, I’m openly advocating for companies that embrace green principles to go forth and prosper (aka make money and employ more people) under the guise of some sort of communist regime.

How long did you think that one through?

 

[RagmopInKona]

I guess you’re right. Just because 80% of the worlds population uses cheap high emissions ice vehicles to include coal, wood, dung and other fuels, for cooking and heating needs, the 20% not driving ICE cars is going to make a difference globally. Glad we made those numbers work out.

Don't fee the troll.
His income depends on this green farce.

 

[sk47]

Yes, and that’s exactly what I expected you to find. YOU are the target audience. Of course you failed to notice the issues that most on the opposite ”side” might see.
THAT is the problem.

It actually reminds me of The Great Global Warming Swindle.
Most of the people watching it were already primed to be told what they already believed. That’s why most viewers failed to notice the careful editing that made scientists appear to contradict themselves. The viewers failed to notice that some of the graphs had been deliberately manipulated, times scales shifted, entire data removed….etc etc.

.

Hello; About the two videos most recently in question. I was specific and named then explained the portion that might be skewed. I found the rest of the videos to be on point and correct.
You vaguely claim that I and others are just being fed what we want to hear and that there are obvious problems with the two videos.
I ask again. What specifically was exaggerated or false in the videos?

Note: Careful editing thing. Here is what you used as a quote from me.

sk47 said:
Hello; First I and others are not saying the climate is not changing. We have written many times the climate has changed throughout time and continues to change currently

Here is the complete statement I wrote.
Hello; First I and others are not saying the climate is not changing. We have written many times the climate has changed throughout time and continues to change currently. I will even concede that we humans add to the scale a bit. So your first cryptic putdown is false.

 

[sk47]

That’s true, but some are most certainly arguing that CO2 isn’t causing it or perhaps in some cases, that yes, CO2; is causing it but that we can’t completely eradicate the problem, therefore no point in acting. There’s many different variations of the contrarian argument. I couldn't possibly try and represent each one accurately.

Hello; Thing is the last few decades actions have been taken to lessen pollution problems from our various human activities. Vehicles do not pollute anywhere near as much now as a few decades ago. Fuel systems no longer are vented directly into the air but have capture (evap) systems built in. Crankcase gasses no longer are vented into the atmosphere as I can clearly recall from the 1960's. These crankcase gases are pulled into the intake system to be either burned in the combustion chamber or maybe in the converter. Fuel injection and direct injection has improved efficiency a great deal. Diesel is a lot cleaner.
Many places went from coal to make electric power over to much cleaner natural gas. Some effort and expense to scrub smokestacks over the decades.
Now i concede the reasons behind many of these improvements were not specifically done because of climate change fear mongering. Many were about pollution in a general sense, but the outcome is cleaner air regardless.

A few posts back I went into some detail about the upfront environment and climate cost of each wind turbine. That the huge amounts of concrete, steel, epoxy, fiberglass, transport, manufacture and instillation all add up to a big spurt of Co2 and other pollution within just weeks. That it will take large farms of these wind turbines with individual farms numbering in the untold numbers of thousands overall. So, a big glut of Co2 released to build these farms soonest.
How is this glut of real-time and current emission of Co2 from building farms justified (rationalized) by the champions? Much like the per-capita argument for excusing China's coal emissions, it is couched in per kilowatt/hour output over twenty years time. But just as China's massive emissions are happening right now, so are the massive emissions from the making and installing of each wind turbine happening right now. Yet we who are driving so very much cleaner ICE vehicles or power companies who use the very much cleaner natural gas somehow are become the real-time current enemy of the earth's climate.

 

[AZlb5.0]

Don't fee the troll.
His income depends on this green farce.

Hey we are all trying to make a dime out of a nickel lol

 

[key01]

I live on an acre and a half on a trailer and owe no one anything. After having a big ole 2800 sqft 5bed 3 bath house with a 2 car garage it’s the best thing I’ve ever done. I don’t even have a kitchen. I cook outside and have a couple of burners plates. We live in the middle of nowhere. The most peaceful life I’ve ever lived. Why would anyone want anything more is beyond me.

So I assume you are retired and no kids around.
“We” is just you and the SO?
Trailer home in the middle of nowhere does not sound remotely attractive for most folk. But, if you like it,?more power to you.

 

[AZlb5.0]

So I assume you are retired and no kids around.
“We” is just you and the SO?
Trailer home in the middle of nowhere does not sound remotely attractive for most folk. But, if you like it,?more power to you.

Have a 15 yr old the other two are grown. 19 and 31. Way too many people (myself included at one time) want to show others what we can afford. My kids have all their education paid for and can live a life they want to live if they put their minds to it. I want to show my kids that you don’t need much to survive and be happy. My 31 yr old daughter heads the accounts management department for her company and about to buy her first home. My 19 yr old is going to school to become a psychiatrist and my 15 yr old son wants to be a YouTube star . I will not be leaving anything to them because they need to make it on their own. Getting an education and being debt free after collage is one of the most important things I can do for my kids. From that point onward their success is on them.

We do a lot of traveling. We just did ten days in Puerto Rico we are doing Italy next probably in September. Being debt free is the smartest thing I did for my self and my family.

 

[tripleyellowmustang]

So I assume you are retired and no kids around.
“We” is just you and the SO?
Trailer home in the middle of nowhere does not sound remotely attractive for most folk. But, if you like it,?more power to you.

What a miserable, pathetic, sniveling little fool you are. Who are you to criticize how or where he lives. AZlb5, you don’t owe this dufus any explanation.

 

[key01]

Have a 15 yr old the other two are grown. 19 and 31. Way too many people (myself included at one time) want to show others what we can afford. My kids have all their education paid for and can live a life they want to live if they put their minds to it. I want to show my kids that you don’t need much to survive and be happy. My 31 yr old daughter heads the accounts management department for her company and about to buy her first home. My 19 yr old is going to school to become a psychiatrist and my 15 yr old son wants to be a YouTube star . I will not be leaving anything to them because they need to make it on their own. Getting an education and being debt free after collage is one of the most important things I can do for my kids. From that point onward their success is on them.

We do a lot of traveling. We just did ten days in Puerto Rico we are doing Italy next probably in September. Being debt free is the smartest thing I did for my self and my family.

Good for you. I agree with it all. Put my kids through college as well so they had a clean start. Sold the big house and paid cash for the smaller house in a quiet community. No debt, but spending all the money on grandkids.

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