GM is pulling back on EVs

[AZlb5.0]

Hello; Read for comprehension. He is not saying 10-12 hours for a single fast charge. Pretty sure he means he would have to stop to charge many times with each charge being a fast charge of some amount of time. I figure he is talking the cumulative time to charge for the entire trip.
Quote AZlb5.0
"Regardless of how many charging stations there are a long the way, people are going to have to wait for a minimum of an hour for a “fast charge” and that won’t give a full charge to a Tesla for long range. You’re talking about a 10-12 hr charge for a long range drive."

You’re are being generous. People will sit there and charge as long as they can, to make sure to give them the range they want. Unless the charging station, is metered at 15 min and shuts off. Then you’ll have people, who will be willing to pay a premium, to have the ability to charge for as long as they want, or be able to kick someone off a charging station. Don’t think that won’t happen. This awesome new fair world man I can’t wait.

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[sk47]

You’re are being generous. People will sit there and charge as long as they can, to make sure to give them the range they want. Unless the charging station, is metered at 15 min and shuts off. Then you’ll have people, who will be willing to pay a premium, to have the ability to charge for as long as they want, or be able to kick someone off a charging station. Don’t think that won’t happen. This awesome new fair world man I can’t wait.

Hello; I did see a story about a person unplugging a car so they can charge their own. I do not think these champions have a clue as to what they are getting into.

 

[AZlb5.0]

Hello; I did see a story about a person unplugging a car so they can charge their own. I do not think these champions have a clue as to what they are getting into.

No they don’t but we can all sit back and watch drinking a beer while we are at it.
And when it hits the arguments and cognitive dissonance is going to be phenomenal.

 

[Gregs24]

https://electrek.co/2021/11/03/how-long-does-it-take-to-charge-a-tesla/
Most people can only afford a stage 1 and 2. Which take hours sometimes up to 10. Stop thinking that majority of people are so well off they can afford a level 3. Serious misstep on your part. You’d have to drive and find a fast charger first off to “fast charge” your car for only 200 miles and that still a 15 min wait. But hey keep thinking that it takes minutes for an at home or anywhere else charge other then a Tesla super charging station.

Oh of course - another US problem. 110v - bad luck.

In the developed world where we have 240v and 7kW home chargers as well it is much less of a problem

 

[K4fxd]

Oh of course - another US problem. 110v - bad luck.

It still doesn't change the amount of power needed. Watts are watts.
Enjoy your pipe dream.

 

[ice445]

Oh of course - another US problem. 110v - bad luck.

In the developed world where we have 240v and 7kW home chargers as well it is much less of a problem

We didn't have the luxury of all our infrastructure being blown up in WW2 though, lol. What works and what people know tends to stick around, I doubt in the 60's they considered electric vehicle charging when they were wiring homes. It's just like the imperial system (which the UK has even worse than we do in some ways), it persists despite making no sense.

 

[Burkey]

It still doesn't change the amount of power needed. Watts are watts.
Enjoy your pipe dream.

Erm…. Well yes, watts are watts but….
The capacity of a cable is based on the amps flowing through it.
If I double the voltage, I reduce the amps by half for the same load.
Eg. 2.4Kw at 240v is 10a
2.4Kw at 120v is 20a
Because power (w) = Volts/amps

So yes, you’d need a conductor of roughly twice the size to achieve the same job if you halve the volts.
It’s probably actually worse than that because eventually voltage drop enters the equation and lower voltage systems tend to struggle with that side sooner than a system operating at a higher voltage (I’m generalising, no need for a thesis). The issue of voltage drop increases as load (amps) increases too. So there‘s also that to keep in mind.

Where I live, most modern homes (anything built in the last 30 years) are capable of delivering nearly 20Kw per phase over the three phases. Eg. 60Kw in total.

YMMV.

EDIT: Upon second reading, I need to correct myself. Watts aren’t ALWAYS “exactly” watts. AC systems see them slightly differently than DC systems. Leading and lagging loads alter the relationship slightly, meaning that with power factor changes, the relationship between amps/volts/watts isn’t as easily established. DC systems don’t see leading or lagging loads.

For those who are interested:
https://www.tutorialspoint.com/difference-between-leading-and-lagging-power-factor

 

[K4fxd]

Here in the US residential electric is single phase. Most homes built after 1970 have 200 amp lead in wires, and are dual 110 volt. Many are still 100 amp if the stove and furnace are gas.

I think you found your answer why the electric meters are watt meters and not amp meters.

 

[Gregs24]

We didn't have the luxury of all our infrastructure being blown up in WW2 though, lol. What works and what people know tends to stick around, I doubt in the 60's they considered electric vehicle charging when they were wiring homes. It's just like the imperial system (which the UK has even worse than we do in some ways), it persists despite making no sense.

We were 240v well before WW2. We are in fact 230v today harmonised through Europe.

Not sure WW2 had anything to do with it as that sort of infrastructure post war is long gone. Very few homes would have 1960's supply setups in them now simply because electrical regs mean any work done on a house needs to bring it up to modern standards, including meters. Houses in the 1960's had one power socket per room and one light circuit, which is no use today. As soon as you start adding additional circuits you have to bring the wiring and consumer unit (trip switch box) up to current standards.

The vast majority of UK houses of any age have a 230v 80A supply to them. A few rural places would be slightly less but it really would be the exception. Home chargers in the UK on single phase supplies (most) are 7kW (30A) In the US that would need over 60A which is going to be some mighty big cable. This also makes things more expensive in the US for a similar power rating - having to use thicker wire.

Re Imperial measurements - in day to day life they are meaningless these days, everything as actually done in metric. A few old imperial things hang on like pints or miles but for manufacturing and anything scientific it is all metric.

 

[Gregs24]

Erm…. Well yes, watts are watts but….
The capacity of a cable is based on the amps flowing through it.
If I double the voltage, I reduce the amps by half for the same load.
Eg. 2.4Kw at 240v is 10a
2.4Kw at 120v is 20a
Because power (w) = Volts/amps

Exactly - just look at the 12v wiring to the battery in a car. LOTS of amps needs lots of metal!

 

[K4fxd]

A few old imperial things hang on like pints or miles but for manufacturing and anything scientific it is all metric.

Again wrong. Pipe is measured in imperial units.

 

[Burkey]

Until this practice stops the credibility of all sources suffer.

I’m in complete agreement here.
More harm than good comes from people overstating the situation or misrepresentation (deliberately or otherwise).
Greta, Gore and AOC (as a few examples) may well have their heart in the right place, but..….it would work a lot better if they were to stick to what the actual scientific findings are, rather than presenting their own misunderstanding of the situation.

 

[Gregs24]

I’m in complete agreement here.
More harm than good comes from people overstating the situation or misrepresentation (deliberately or otherwise).
Greta, Gore and AOC (as a few examples) may well have their heart in the right place, but..….it would work a lot better if they were to stick to what the actual scientific findings are, rather than presenting their own misunderstanding of the situation.

As has been repeated by me and others over and over again extremists are never right. There is never 'black and white' on anything and those that think there is are deluded.

 

[Gregs24]

Back on topic solid state EV batteries will be in use by Toyota and Honda in 2 years time.

All those complaining about slavery in Lithium mines will be able to rest easy, whilst still buying Lithium polymer batteries for their phones of course ...

 

[AZlb5.0]

Back on topic solid state EV batteries will be in use by Toyota and Honda in 2 years time.

All those complaining about slavery in Lithium mines will be able to rest easy, whilst still buying Lithium polymer batteries for their phones of course ...

I just asked because there’s a lot of people who like to virtue signal. But wanted to get your opinion and I’m glad that I did. Now any argument you make as to the betterment of society through electric vehicle is null and void. You’re in it for yourself and that’s ok as everyone else is. It’s called hypocrisy. Simple concept most can grasp.

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