GM is pulling back on EVs

[Burkey]

The American deserts are not "dead" land. There are many forms of life that live there. Solar farms in the amounts needed would destroy all of that life.

I really hope you were being sarcastic.

The only way solar works is if we cover buildings in the cells or put a massive solar farm on the moon and beam the energy back to earth.

You need less than 1% of the landmass to provide enough solar. That assumes that you aren‘t using any offshore wind or rooftop solar of course. However, it also doesn’t allow for the battery banks or hydroelectric stuff either.
So 1% might be the final figure once that’s all taken into account.

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[ice445]

https://thedriven.io/2023/04/21/wor...ounces-major-breakthrough-in-battery-density/

This is pretty huge, even if they're being overly optimistic, 80% of this would be amazing still. They're also working on sodium based battery manufacturing on top of this.

Even I thought EV development might be rather slow from this point forward, but it seems I may have been wrong.

 

[Burkey]

If fossil fuel could be burned at half the current efficiency but burned 100% clean the debate would be over, would it not?

Correct, and that would be an awesome solution.

 

[Burkey]

https://thedriven.io/2023/04/21/wor...ounces-major-breakthrough-in-battery-density/

This is pretty huge, even if they're being overly optimistic, 80% of this would be amazing still. They're also working on sodium based battery manufacturing on top of this.

Even I thought EV development might be rather slow from this point forward, but it seems I may have been wrong.

If they’re right (and I really need to stress the if), that’s a game changer. I may need to sell the Mustang much sooner than anticipated….

 

[ice445]

If they’re right (and I really need to stress the if), that’s a game changer. I may need to sell the Mustang much sooner than anticipated….

They claim mass production is starting soon, so unless there's some sort of issue with cell production or an unexpected design flaw, it seems like there really may be something to it. I'm so used to reading those "lab comes up with crazy design with zero scalability" articles so this is kind of a shock lol

 

[sk47]

I would say do 2 mega solar farms one in Arizona and one in Nevada. Plenty of sun 365 and plenty of unused government land that’s in desert area. Then supplement each state with wind just in case there’s a heavy summer or winter. If we did this we would be able to supply each state with more then enough energy moving forward. That would take care of all the lower 48. We can keep a power plant or two in Alaska because of the weather there and Hawaii could supply themselves with plenty of wind farms and solar also.

Hello; Early on in the infancy or at least early days of the fantasy that solar could replace fossil fuels such ideas were floated. The southwest gets lotas of sun all year around. Not sure how large an array would be needed, that it is likely doable.
Assuming for the sake of discussion enough energy can be captured with such an array. The main problem as i recall is how to get the power from such a concentrated location to the far reaches of the nation.
Pushing electricity thru conductors causes loss of energy over distances. Been a while since i looked at the transmission lines situation, but think transmission is a major issue with the plan. I think there has been a reason power plants are spread out over the country the way they have been.
Jumping the voltage up to 50,000 or 60,000 volts (maybe even higher, I do not recall for sure) helps with transmission over distances. Then the voltage is stepped down with substations and transformers to a more workable level. If I recall correctly go look at the power lines feeding your neighborhood. The topmost wire carries the higher voltage which feeds into a barrel shaped step-down transformer. That top wire is thinner than the wires which feed the lower voltage into your home.

Since we are discussing fantasy sorts of solutions for electric energy from solar let me add another, so far, fantastical idea. That being a superconductor which works at temperatures way above absolute zero cold and can be made from non-exotic/non-rare conductor materials. These room temperature super conductors have been a dream for a very long time. A "someday" thing maybe only ten years away since the 1960's when I was still in high school reading magazines like Popular Science and Popular Mechanics. (NOTE- that is a sarcastic way to say we are no closer now with a practical solution than 60 years ago)

As someone has already mentioned the southwest desert areas are complete ecosystems. A less concentrated amount of life to be sure but one which will not tolerate the sort of scale needed to p[ower the whole country. An example of how the environmental zealots might respond might be how California does not capture the precious water, but allows it to runoff into the ocean in the name of preserving natural ecosystems.

 

[sk47]

https://thedriven.io/2023/04/21/wor...ounces-major-breakthrough-in-battery-density/

This is pretty huge, even if they're being overly optimistic, 80% of this would be amazing still. They're also working on sodium based battery manufacturing on top of this.

Even I thought EV development might be rather slow from this point forward, but it seems I may have been wrong.

Hello: Reads nice to be sure. As I mentioned recently I have been reading of such fantastical breakthroughs since the 1960's. Most never make it from the experimental stage to the practical stage. A few exceptions do such as the laser. Some work but cannot be scaled up at a practical cost or some other issue with industrial scale.
I guess the thing is folks in power are making broad life risking decisions based on battery tech which is nowhere near the level in the article. Whatever new battery tech may come years from now, we are being setup for potential life altering failure of vital systems with the tech we currently have.
The someday solutions are not yet real.

 

[sk47]

Storm rages for key battery element after 2022 rush as price of lithium plunges nearly 50% (msn.com)

“The main winners in this particular lithium rush were, according to data from the International Energy Agency (IEA), the few players that dominate this market. There are large reserves that are widely distributed in different areas of the world. But according to the most recent data from the IEA, in 2019 Australia extracted approximately 50% of the world’s lithium, Chile more than 25% and China about 14%. In terms of processing the material into lithium hydroxide or lithium carbonate, China was the undisputed leader with more than 50% of the world’s refining capacity, followed by Chile with approximately 30%. In terms of market share by company, the US-based Albermale produced 24% of the world’s lithium, while Chile’s SQM Lithium contributed 12% and China’s Tianqi Lithium 11%.”

Hello; My comments. I will not make the assertion so will pose it ass a question for our Australian friend. Is the 50% by volume extracted from your country part of why you champion EV’s? Makes sense if true. I am all for things which help my country, so why should you not also have the same feelings.

“Behind the latest plunge in the price of lithium is a significant slowdown in Chinese electric car sales due to the end of electric vehicle subsidies. During 2022, electric car sales soared like never before in the Asian giant, but this suddenly changed with the new year. According to data from the China Association of Automobile Manufacturers (CAAM), passenger car production and sales were 1.397 million and 1.469 million respectively, down 34.3% and 35.2% month-on-month and 32.9% year-on-year.”

Hello; My comments; Seems the same thing is true of the Chinese as elsewhere. Without subsidies (taking money from the pocket of others) folks do not see the value of an EV on its own merit. Even a save the earth message does not appear to outweigh the negatives of the EV enough to justify paying more for an EV.

Even among our own thread EV champions an ICE is purchased over a planet saving BEV at times.

 

[sk47]

Hello; And the plot sickens some more.

EVs Fall Short of EPA Estimates by a Much Larger Margin Than Gas Cars in Our Real-World Highway Testing (msn.com)
“On Car and Driver's 75-mph highway test, more than 350 internal-combustion vehicles averaged 4.0 percent better fuel economy than what was stated on their labels. But the average range for an EV was 12.5 percent worse than the price sticker numbers.”

“The way the tests are conducted also skews the reported range figure. Unlike Car and Driver's real-world test—carried out at a constant 75 mph—the EPA's cycle is variable, with the speed increasing and decreasing over the course of the test. While this is detrimental to the results for gas vehicles, which tend to be most efficient at a steady rpm, the ability to regenerate energy under braking leads to higher range results for EVs, which are shifted even higher by the slight bias towards the city results in the combined rating.”

 

[sk47]

Hundreds of 24-Ton Bricks Could Help Fix a Key Renewable Energy Problem (msn.com)

Hello; An interesting take on excess energy storage. I like the concept because it is stable. No leaking or evaporation as with pumped hydro. A great deal more complex that with hydro mechanically. Once the blocks are raised to a high point the potential energy will be there and will not dissipate as in a battery nor leak/evaporate away as in a reservoir.
I do wonder about all the lifting and moving machinery involved. Lots of mechanical parts to keep in working order.

Last part of the story may be the more important. The outfit is losing money.

 

[AZlb5.0]

The American deserts are not "dead" land. There are many forms of life that live there. Solar farms in the amounts needed would destroy all of that life.

I really hope you were being sarcastic.

The only way solar works is if we cover buildings in the cells or put a massive solar farm on the moon and beam the energy back to earth.

Look you and I agree on many things. The thing that I don’t care much about is desert life. I live out here in AZ and everything that lives in dessert here is trying to kill you. So a few critters that aren’t gonna try and kill me because they can I’m ok with

 

[K4fxd]

Even I thought EV development might be rather slow from this point forward, but it seems I may have been wrong.

We all have seen these claims before. I'll believe it when I see it.

Jumping the voltage up to 50,000 or 60,000 volts (maybe even higher, I do not recall for sure) helps with transmission over distances.

The main transmission lines, you know the very tall towers, run 765,000 volts

Look you and I agree on many things. The thing that I don’t care much about is desert life. I live out here in AZ and everything that lives in dessert here is trying to kill you. So a few critters that aren’t gonna try and kill me because they can I’m ok with

I used to live in Cave creek, still have family in the Phoenix area. Who knows the impact of all that life going away. There again, it's not the preservation of the environment that is the main issue, unless that environment is "cute" like a polar bear.

 

[AZlb5.0]

I used to live in Cave creek, still have family in the Phoenix area. Who knows the impact of all that life going away. There again, it's not the preservation of the environment that is the main issue, unless that environment is "cute" like a polar bear.

CC is a beautiful area. We used to frequent there all the time. We lived in San Tan Valley. It was another hidden little gem. We lived in copper basin. As far East as you can go, before it turned into Florence. You wouldn’t recognize it now. When we first moved there it would take 45-1 hr to get to phoenix. Now it takes 45 min just to get to either the 60 or the 202. It got crazy crowded with that whole California exodus.

I don’t care about the polar bears either. They are not cute, they will take your head off with one swipe of that massive front paw. Coca Cola decided to make them cute. Much like Yogi made brown bears cute. Folks have found out the hard way they are not. One guy recorded his demise by bears. People still don’t learn.

 

[Burkey]

I will not make the assertion so will pose it ass a question for our Australian friend. Is the 50% by volume extracted from your country part of why you champion EV’s?

It makes no difference to my mindset. We will lose our massive coal exports as a result of the changes. Whether it turns into a financial positive or negative remains to be seen.

My understanding is that other nations have vastly greater reserves of lithium. The 50% figure simply represents that we might be more readily accessing our reserves.

Last I checked the 5 major reserves were in Bolivia, Argentina, USA, Chile and Australia (in that order). Perhaps that has changed?

 

[Gregs24]

It makes no difference to my mindset. We will lose our massive coal exports as a result of the changes. Whether it turns into a financial positive or negative remains to be seen.

My understanding is that other nations have vastly greater reserves of lithium. The 50% figure simply represents that we might be more readily accessing our reserves.

Last I checked the 5 major reserves were in Bolivia, Argentina, USA, Chile and Australia (in that order). Perhaps that has changed?

It has

Seawater could provide nearly unlimited amounts of critical battery material | Science | AAAS

The Engineer - KAUST spinout will extract lithium from seawater

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