From 370z to Mustang GT

[Mazman]

Here are some clips from the same day
305 pilot sport 4s on the rears. Traction control on and not even kick-down or full throttle. Rain and cold weather...

Sponsored

 

[Jmtoast]

To the last three post above mine here. Cold weather...wet roads... 90 degree turns.... Yeah of course you are gonna loose traction. This is not a Mustang problem its a all car problem. Any car can loose traction in those conditions. Yall just tryin to scare the new guy is all

I'm at 660 rear wheel hp. I can go from 0 to ditch in under 3 secs in any weather. But if you turn advanced trac off, have stock tires, it in drag mode, and floor it from a dig you can certainly lose traction with an A10. With a manual for sure.

 

[Briebee72]

I'm at 660 rear wheel hp. I can go from 0 to ditch in under 3 secs in any weather. But if you turn advanced trac off, have stock tires, it in drag mode, and floor it from a dig you can certainly lose traction with an A10. With a manual for sure.

2019 gt. ford calibration tune, firehawk tires. turn advance track off on flat level ground in drag mode in an a-10 I floor it I take off ..I dont loose traction. Ill get a few barks but thats it. Anyone is more then welcome to come drive my car and give it a try. but back to my point.... see what all you have to do it get it ot break loose? My argument is under normal driving conditions these cars are stable and safe. Not the squirrelly monsters some claim they are. On a STOCK car you gotta really be trying

 

[Jmtoast]

2019 gt. ford calibration tune, firehawk tires. turn advance track off on flat level ground in drag mode in an a-10 I floor it I take off ..I dont loose traction. Ill get a few barks but thats it. Anyone is more then welcome to come drive my car and give it a try. but back to my point.... see what all you have to do it get it ot break loose? My argument is under normal driving conditions these cars are stable and safe. Not the squirrelly monsters some claim they are. On a STOCK car you gotta really be trying

That isn't STOCK. You changed the single most important item, tires, to a very sticky tire that Hellcat owners swear by in regards to traction and are calling it STOCK, lol. Come on.

 

[Briebee72]

That isn't STOCK. You changed the single most important item, tires, to a very sticky tire that Hellcat owners swear by in regards to traction and are calling it STOCK, lol. Come on.

Tires.. I dont count those in the stock equation because after a year or so no one has the STOCK tires any more. They are a wear item. If you count tires then there isnt a single stock car left on the roads after the first tire change. plus you missed my point. I wasn't saying my car was stock I was saying if I cant do it with my mods then how are people with stock cars doing it.

Who hasnt change tires in the first year or so? And the firehawk tire is rated lower then the f1 goodyears it came with so... people love to just split hairs on this topic. not sure why everyone is so determined to say this car is a hellbeast that will leave your children parentless if you so much as try to touch the gas. When it is in fact a very stable car. This topic has always confounded me why people just want this car to be a unstable mess and will argue in favor of it. Even my buddies 19gt with a supercharger putting out over 700 hp with little to no mods on the suspension is very stable. Ill say again no idea what yall are doing that you just magically loose control all the time as this is not my experience with the car.

 

[Jmtoast]

Tires.. I dont count those in the stock equation because after a year or so no one has the STOCK tires any more. They are a wear item. If you count tires then there isnt a single stock car left on the roads after the first tire change. plus you missed my point. I wasn't saying my car was stock I was saying if I cant do it with my mods then how are people with stock cars doing it.

Who hasnt change tires in the first year or so? And the firehawk tire is rated lower then the f1 goodyears it came with so... people love to just split hairs on this topic. not sure why everyone is so determined to say this car is a hellbeast that will leave your children parentless if you so much as try to touch the gas. When it is in fact a very stable car. This topic has always confounded me why people just want this car to be a unstable mess and will argue in favor of it. Even my buddies 19gt with a supercharger putting out over 700 hp with little to no mods on the suspension is very stable. Ill say again no idea what yall are doing that you just magically loose control all the time as this is not my experience with the car.

lol, no.. Firehawks are not splitting hairs when talking about traction. Don't care what the ratings are. The reviews by people like myself with 700+ says otherwise.

 

[Briebee72]

lol, no.. Firehawks are not splitting hairs when talking about traction. Don't care what the ratings are. The reviews by people like myself with 700+ says otherwise.

Wait what.. you mean there is a tire out there that isnt complete crap for these cars that is not Michelin? The Michelin elites will hunt you down for saying any tire that isnt a cup 2 is any good. LOL we solved the issue. If everyone just gets firehawks then no one will ever loose traction again.

But seriously my buddy has all that Michelin crap and my fire hawks that cost half the price get better traction then he gets. Ill never understand the whole Michelin is best thing. These firehawks are the bomb and highly underrated.

 

[Jmtoast]

Wait what.. you mean there is a tire out there that isnt complete crap for these cars that is not Michelin? The Michelin elites will hunt you down for saying any tire that isnt a cup 2 is any good. LOL we solved the issue. If everyone just gets firehawks then no one will ever loose traction again.

But seriously my buddy has all that Michelin crap and my fire hawks that cost half the price get better traction then he gets. Ill never understand the whole Michelin is best thing. These firehawks are the bomb and highly underrated.

For straight line traction I'd take Firehawks all day long for a fraction of the price. Great tire for the price. When I was researching tires I saw a lot of happy Hellcat owners with them.

 

[jwt]

I was thinking about this at the weekend, what possible reasons does this car appear to get sideways faster than others...choosing my words above very carefully

In no particular order I would suggest the following factors

• Price.... this is a lot of power at a very reasonable price allowing more people at different abilities to get into it, the same power to weight in a dodge is 50% more at a minimum, Europeans are double the price
• Inexperience with UHP tires, lots of people may "know" that UHP summer tires are dire in the cold but experiencing it first hand either drives the message home or you crash..
• The torque curve in the Gen 3 is low at slow rpms and comes on strong, reminds me of a Suzuki RGR500 2 stroke, absolutely nothing until you hit the power band and then all hell breaks loose. Ok so the gen 3 isn't that bad, but I can definitely see someone burying their foot at low rpms and as the engine winds up being caught out as the power comes on fast, particularly mid bend (the RGR was famous for killing people by wheelieing mid bend as the power band kicked in)
• Messing about with drive modes, so that your muscle memory is messed up as to what level of throttle gives what level of tip in, torque etc etc I know I have been caught out when I swapped from normal mode (my usual) to sport and the throttle came on harder than I planned for.
• Experience with RWD. I grew up on RWD but lots of folks have no experience of RWD and for example expect to be able to bury their foot mid bend with the worst thing to happen being understeer and able to control that. The first time a RWD tries to swap ends if you never experienced that, you get a fright.
• Turning off all the TC etc and not expecting the computer to step in as you get sideways on purpose. Quite a few threads on how disabled the advance trac and traction control really are even if the dash tells you they are off. Isn't this why we disconnect the plug in the fender on Dyno runs? So picture it, you are pulling out of your coffee meet and step on it expecting the ass to swing out, you are already counter steering to compensate when the nannies step in and correct for oversteer so now your counter steer is completely off line :(
• Over reliance on the nannies, so every time you buried the throttle up to now, unbeknownst to you the TC and advance trac are working miracles keeping the car straight or curving as needed right up to the day where even they can't save you and now, unlike with no nannies, you are travelling at velocities or power inputs that are uncontrollable. Kind of like why people with AWD/4x4 crash at higher speeds in poor weather.

 

[schmeky]

100% agreed on the Indy Fire Hawks. Why pay more?

 

[bnightstar]

Wait what.. you mean there is a tire out there that isnt complete crap for these cars that is not Michelin? The Michelin elites will hunt you down for saying any tire that isnt a cup 2 is any good. LOL we solved the issue. If everyone just gets firehawks then no one will ever loose traction again.

But seriously my buddy has all that Michelin crap and my fire hawks that cost half the price get better traction then he gets. Ill never understand the whole Michelin is best thing. These firehawks are the bomb and highly underrated.

Tires make a big change I switched from the OEM PZero to Hankook K127 and the difference in grip was insane add to that a track alignment and car is like on rails really hard to impossible making the end slide. However on the PZero's the car was borderline dangerous as they are Hard compound UHP tire which require a lot of heat (not possible on the street) to stop sliding the rear which mean that everytime you step on it the back tries to step as well. Have a lot of clips drifting with this tires.

 

[Norm Peterson]

I came from 4 banger fWD cars. Car before this Mustang gt was a civic type r. I even made a post awhile back on how do people loose control of these cars cause i dont see it. I have regular tires nothing fancy and i have the calibration tune and its a 2019 gt automatic. Even when i turn the traction control off it is very very hard to get this car to just loose control. I almost never loose grip or have the back end come out from me. I also do not drive like a grandpa. Im pretty much flooring it and paddle shifting through out the whole thing. I personally dont understand all these people who say the car is uncontrolable or that the back end goes squirly all the time. It simply never happens to me and like I said im fairly heavy on the throttle.

I have a feeling that you have your own little carbon-based nanny that's doing a pretty good job of holding you back from asking your car to do anything truly stupid. I'm guessing that your throttle inputs are closer to smooth ramps than stomp-on-it step changes.

I do think if you could drive Indys and PSS tires in back to back sessions at HPDE in heavy rain, that you'd come to understand what the fuss about Michelins is all about. Bridgestone has produced some tires that are quite good in the dry, nicely responsive and all, but they don't seem to have been able to bring the wet weather performance up to a comparable level. So in part, that's what the extra money spent on Michelins buys you. You've probably watched parts of this one before, but it was anything but a white-knuckled ride even when the Corvette decided that it wanted to try a line other than what its driver had in mind.



I haven't always been a Michelin fan - back in the X, XAS, and XWX days (late 1960s / early 1970s), I really didn't care for Michelins. Pirelli's CN36 had everything in the Michelin lineup covered.


Norm

 

[Norm Peterson]

I was thinking about this at the weekend, what possible reasons does this car appear to get sideways faster than others...choosing my words above very carefully

In no particular order I would suggest the following factors

• Price.... this is a lot of power at a very reasonable price allowing more people at different abilities to get into it, the same power to weight in a dodge is 50% more at a minimum, Europeans are double the price
• Inexperience with UHP tires, lots of people may "know" that UHP summer tires are dire in the cold but experiencing it first hand either drives the message home or you crash..
• The torque curve in the Gen 3 is low at slow rpms and comes on strong, reminds me of a Suzuki RGR500 2 stroke, absolutely nothing until you hit the power band and then all hell breaks loose. Ok so the gen 3 isn't that bad, but I can definitely see someone burying their foot at low rpms and as the engine winds up being caught out as the power comes on fast, particularly mid bend (the RGR was famous for killing people by wheelieing mid bend as the power band kicked in)
• Messing about with drive modes, so that your muscle memory is messed up as to what level of throttle gives what level of tip in, torque etc etc I know I have been caught out when I swapped from normal mode (my usual) to sport and the throttle came on harder than I planned for.
• Experience with RWD. I grew up on RWD but lots of folks have no experience of RWD and for example expect to be able to bury their foot mid bend with the worst thing to happen being understeer and able to control that. The first time a RWD tries to swap ends if you never experienced that, you get a fright.
• Turning off all the TC etc and not expecting the computer to step in as you get sideways on purpose. Quite a few threads on how disabled the advance trac and traction control really are even if the dash tells you they are off. Isn't this why we disconnect the plug in the fender on Dyno runs? So picture it, you are pulling out of your coffee meet and step on it expecting the ass to swing out, you are already counter steering to compensate when the nannies step in and correct for oversteer so now your counter steer is completely off line :(
• Over reliance on the nannies, so every time you buried the throttle up to now, unbeknownst to you the TC and advance trac are working miracles keeping the car straight or curving as needed right up to the day where even they can't save you and now, unlike with no nannies, you are travelling at velocities or power inputs that are uncontrollable. Kind of like why people with AWD/4x4 crash at higher speeds in poor weather.

I think in a nutshell . . . that all comes down to whether the driver has sufficient experience and self-discipline. And part of self-discipline is being smooth at the controls, not some stomp on it now and worry about it not hooking later approach.

Your last point is well taken. If you're accustomed to cars not letting themselves get "out of shape" even a little, when you finally do manage to momentarily push them through the limits of what their TC or stability control can correct for . . . all of a sudden you're out there in uncharted territory. Yeah, it's probably going to be a bit scary, in large part because you haven't been allowed to go there before.


Norm

 

[Darkstar]

I don't find this car to be unpredictable or spikey, even with all the nannies off. In fact, I'm quite comfortable with it and find mild drifting to be quite controllable and fairly predictable, maybe not BMW level of predictable but not snappy. Of course, I haven't driven it 10/10ths on a track so I can't speak on that. I think it handles quite well for what many people still see as a cruiser, it just isn't as easy as something smaller and lighter.

 

[Norm Peterson]

To add to my previous post (which has been lightly edited):

Getting out past what the nannies are expecting to be working with means driving under conditions where tire grip is significantly less than what was assumed in the nanny calibrations. Typically this means things like summer tires at cold temperatures or tires with only minimal tread depth in the rain or snow/slush.


Norm

Sponsored